Human Resources committee  I really don't have any data to back that. I'm not really sure I could even answer that question with any authority. I'm sorry.

Human Resources committee  We don't necessarily agree--and I'd have to go back and check. I know we've done a little bit of research on the issue in Quebec, and I'd have to look at some of our results from that. One of the problems with the Quebec system is that it's also very onerous in terms of paperwork.

Human Resources committee  It's a process question, yes.

Human Resources committee  We also believe that training is already happening at a much more advanced degree at many businesses already across Canada. I'll give you another suggestion, another way we believe we can help small businesses train even more, and that's actually using the employment insurance system.

Human Resources committee  Absolutely. We encourage our members constantly to be training. In fact, I would suggest to you that the last research we did on training in small businesses was in 2003, and I think there's even more today. They had already been investing more in training in the three previous years and were planning to invest even more into training in the coming years.

Human Resources committee  Well, I don't think it needs to be a requirement. I think it's already happening. Training is occurring. As you have pointed out yourself, there's lots of frustration among smaller firms, especially in very tight labour markets, because they don't necessarily have the ability to pay the higher salaries and have the great benefits, because they can't access them.

Human Resources committee  We are looking at that. We believe there is no role for government; it needs to be industry-driven. Industry itself has to look at ways to better integrate. So we have worked with immigration settlement agencies in various provinces across the country, we have worked with organizations that work with people with disabilities, and we try to work with them to find ways to match some of our members with the people they're bringing in through those systems.

Human Resources committee  One of the problems we had with the Quebec 1% training tax is that it didn't necessarily recognize very easily all the informal training that happens at a smaller firm. That is why I showed one of the charts that indicated that what we call “informal” training, on-the-job training, mentoring, that type of thing, is much more prevalent in a smaller firm and can be just as effective and as important to the experience and the skill base of an employee.

Human Resources committee  If I could also respond, in regard to the foreign credential recognition programs and so forth that are being pushed forward, I think information is absolutely essential for the new immigrants who are coming into Canada. But the same information needs to be also provided to employers so that they can understand what it is that new immigrant is bringing to the table.

Human Resources committee  If I may, probably fear. They don't understand what they need to do to accommodate somebody with a disability. I think understanding that is the biggest barrier for them. Rather than trying to understand, they'd rather look elsewhere. In jurisdictions where they have no choice—and I think in Alberta you're seeing huge advancements in that particular area—employers are looking at people with disabilities more and more, because their options are fewer and they're making the accommodations they need.

Human Resources committee  If I may comment on that, that's exactly what the purpose of this report was. It was really to try to highlight the fact that what our members need are tradespeople, apprenticeship training, college education. Those who are being brought into the country are folks who are much more highly educated, and they get frustrated because they can't find the jobs that they have been trained for, and so many other jobs go lacking.

Human Resources committee  We know the shortage of qualified labour is a problem. We need to understand it. On the next page is another recent survey, in which the CFIB found that SMEs have the greatest need for people with college education or apprenticeship training. This is followed by those that need people who have graduated from high school or have two years of on-the-job training.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. Good morning. It's a pleasure to be here to talk about employability issues from the perspectives of small and medium-sized companies. As stated, my name is Corinne Pohlmann, and with me is Lucie Charron, our economist. She will be providing a brief overview of the current situation for SMEs in Canada, and I'll then follow up with some of the current challenges that SMEs are facing in dealing with some of these issues.

Information & Ethics committee  I think that would be a very large and difficult exercise, mostly because most small businesses do not carry that much private information. Groups like ours do a lot of work to try to inform our members. What they need are tools. They do not have the time. When you have three employees and you're the owner, to go out and get certified for two or three hours takes away from what you're trying to accomplish that day, and if you're not dealing with lots of information, I don't see that as being a really useful way of helping businesses get in compliance.

Information & Ethics committee  I believe the business has a responsibility and they will do what they can. But if a business loses information because it's stolen from them, for example, it would be difficult for them to know, to go back--