Finance committee  To your first question, you're right, we're like a wholesaler, so we provide a fee to the acquirer, who then adds other services. We're an operating cost to them--and you're right, it does reach the merchants. I am not here to prescribe legislative remedies or any prescriptive remedy; I am here to indicate that we do not have a level playing field and to indicate that Interac cannot survive if there isn't a level playing field.

Finance committee  We are, as you know, in discussions with the bureau on restructuring ourselves internally so that we have the same capabilities as our competitors. But the second is that we need to ensure that consumers and merchants are making overt and open, informed choices in the marketplace, and this is what I think Mr.

Finance committee  Yesterday.

Finance committee  We are. They take their statutory duty to protect the interests, but--

Finance committee  I've been very open as to our governance challenges and the challenges of any association model where an organization is governed by its very users. It's tremendously difficult to gain consensus, and it moves at the pace of the slowest. I think it's important to note that the board itself has acknowledged this in their recommendation and support of the proposal to restructure the organization, which could be managed by an independent board.

Industry committee  We're mandated under a cost recovery basis. Our flat-rate switch fee increases or decreases on an annual basis based on the operating costs and needs of the network in any given year. For example, historically, our fee has vacillated only from 0.4¢ to 0.8¢, and it depends on the operating expenditures in that given year.

Industry committee  As I was saying on the priority routing issue, when you have two competing networks on the same card, it does raise some issues of transparency and choice for the consumer. I would agree with you. I think it's interesting that neither MasterCard nor Visa allows each other's applications to ever co-reside on the same card, and there are some reasons for that.

Industry committee  It's stronger than that. When I joined Interac two years ago, and we started the conversations with the Competition Bureau shortly thereafter, Visa and MasterCard were in the process of entering the Canadian debit market. They are here. There are over one million cards.

Finance committee  We're mandated under a cost recovery basis. Our flat-rate switch fee increases or decreases on an annual basis based on the operating costs and needs of the network in any given year. For example, historically, our fee has vacillated only from 0.4¢ to 0.8¢, and it depends on the operating expenditures in that given year.

Finance committee  As I was saying on the priority routing issue, when you have two competing networks on the same card, it does raise some issues of transparency and choice for the consumer. I would agree with you. I think it's interesting that neither MasterCard nor Visa allows each other's applications to ever co-reside on the same card, and there are some reasons for that.

Finance committee  It's stronger than that. When I joined Interac two years ago, and we started the conversations with the Competition Bureau shortly thereafter, Visa and MasterCard were in the process of entering the Canadian debit market. They are here. There are over one million cards.

Industry committee  You're correct. From what I heard at the end, we charge a flat fee to the acquirer of 0.8¢, and then together with the other services they provide to the merchant, they would bundle that into their contract with the merchant.

Industry committee  In answer to your first question, our fee to the acquirers is less than a cent; it's 0.8¢. That's charged to the acquirers. And no, the issuers don't receive royalties from the point of sale transaction.

Industry committee  In the Interac model, Interac charges the acquirer less than a cent to process that transaction from the merchants into the system. We also charge the issuer the same flat fee amount to process the transaction on the other side into the account to ensure that the money is available, etc.

Industry committee  We charge the acquirer 0.8¢ to process the transaction. Of course, the acquirer has a contract with that merchant and provides other services in processing and the terminal that sits on the point of sale at the merchant location. We're part of their operating costs. They would have a contract with the merchants that would bundle their other services and pass on those fees in a competitive environment.