Natural Resources committee  I'd say the gap is getting wider because more projects are coming online. As I mentioned in response to some earlier questions, a lot of our big employers in construction are saying that they've tapped out in finding trades people in Alberta and in the more traditional places they've gone for workers, like the Maritimes, partly because the pool of skilled trades in Canada is relatively small and also because Alberta is now competing with other jurisdictions.

Natural Resources committee  The big concern we have about the downloading is it will result in less rigorous oversight. They'll be handing responsibility from the federal government to the Alberta Energy Resources Conservation Board, which in some circles is referred to as their approval board. They almost never turn down a project.

Natural Resources committee  The federation itself is an umbrella organization for unions, so we don't train directly, but many of our affiliates do. In fact, when it comes to taking on apprentices and training them for the jobs in the oil sands and elsewhere in construction, the building trades unions do the lion's share of the training.

Natural Resources committee  The problem is that we're not getting either right now.

Natural Resources committee  Only to the Conservative members.

Natural Resources committee  Mr. Anderson, can I respond to that?

Natural Resources committee  First of all, let me address a comment you made—

Natural Resources committee  We support parties that support job creation—

Natural Resources committee  I refuse to answer the question that way, because it's a complicated question.

Natural Resources committee  First, in response to your long, rambling question, I will provide you more than a one-word answer. This is another example of the way the Tories try to bully people into having a discussion on their terms. You put people in boxes and you try to paint them as villains. Frankly, I think it's undemocratic and unbecoming of a member of Parliament.

Natural Resources committee  Do you know what, Mr. Richards? I support value-added job creation.

Natural Resources committee  It's insulting.

Natural Resources committee  We have a fundamental choice to make in terms of developing the oil sands: either we have an export strategy that chases high prices or we have a value-added strategy that promotes job creation in value-added industries at home. We have to choose between one or the other. Honestly, arguments can be made on either case, but unfortunately I don't think that debate has been had.

Natural Resources committee  That's exactly what I'm saying. In particular—

Natural Resources committee  That was a conclusion, right?