Finance committee  I think when we lay out the union dues that are not being lawfully deducted and tax expenditures go up, this will be a revenue-positive thing for the Canadian taxpayer. Hundreds of millions of dollars in taxes are going uncollected because union dues are being unlawfully claimed on tax returns, and unionized Canadians have no information from their unions to know how to properly complete their tax returns based on the T4 slips.

Finance committee  They are included. There are fewer today, since President Obama used his executive power to shield some trusts. If you wish, we can get more information from American experts as to the trusts that are covered versus the ones that are not in the wake of President Obama's changes.

Finance committee  Some trusts still report in the U.S. One of the issues we're going to face if we do this has to do with what has transpired in the U.S. Money begins to flow into these trusts and flows out into all of these activities that will not qualify under the Income Tax Act, and we won't be able to catch them and protect the taxpayers.

Finance committee  Yes. It's 86% higher than the union-free Canadians.

Finance committee  Beyond that is what it proves when you look at the strength of American unions, with 13.5 million people represented, and the amount of money they raise and spend. This idea that unions would disappear off the face of Canada because there's disclosure is belied by the facts in multiple other countries around the world.

Finance committee  What would you like me to specifically address?

Finance committee  Yes, I don't see it either. I think the point that Mr. Smith is endeavouring to make is that it's a competitive advantage when people who are facing a union organizing campaign could actually have financial information about the organization that you could be compelled to be a member of, could be compelled to pay dues to, and could put them out of work if they went offside of the union boss.

Finance committee  Mr. Georgetti said he has 136 labour councils at the Canadian Labour Congress that have financial affairs of $1,000 to $1,500. Well, their reports are going to be zero, zero, zero. They're not going to be hard to file.

Finance committee  You're right. No one is saying that it happens all the time, but a major labourers' local of a construction sector union didn't hold an internal meeting for 15 years. What could those people do about that? When they do question it, they are challenged and intimidated; they can be threatened with being thrown out of the membership.

Finance committee  Well, I don't want to repeat what the Montreal Economic Institute has already articulated. I've been studying professional associations, and there's an incredible breadth and complexity. There are a lot of differences in how they're structured. I don't know that there's a professional association in this country that wants to be called a union.

Finance committee  We helped two federal government workers who were unlawfully taken to court by the union, and the Supreme Court of Canada turned the union down for its conduct. They took forced union dues and took people to court when there was a 100-year-old common law principle. The union had a legal opinion.

Finance committee  It's not for employees. In my capacities as an employer, absolutely I've advocated for health and safety.

Finance committee  He did not. The Rand formula decision is in our submission, in both languages. What's interesting is that he also said that it wasn't the right thing for all unions. He ordered this because of a problematic, dysfunctional union that needed money to mature. He said other unions would be negatively affected if they were awarded forced union dues.

Finance committee  Yes, it's paragraph 8(5)(c). The key words, if you read through the various clauses, are that dues are not deductible to the extent levied “for any purpose not directly related to the ordinary operating expenses” of the union. In that section of our submission we refer to the different CRA policies and interpretation bulletins.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I would like to present our submission's objectives. First, we address incorrect statements made by labour leaders and critics of Bill C-377. Our comprehensive submission provides other examples and factual evidence to correct the record. Second, an existing section of the Income Tax Act addresses when union dues are not deductible.