Justice committee  Yes, that's how I understand it.

Justice committee  I'm sorry. I keep interrupting you. That's how I understand it. It would be my expectation, and the expectation of the front-line officers who I represent, that the first course of action should be to let the police effect an arrest where it's appropriate to do that.

Justice committee  Well, I think it just depends on the circumstances, so it's not completely accurate to suggest that police won't respond to a property offence no matter what. It depends on the circumstances. If a person phones 911 and describes a set of circumstances where there's a heightened sense of risk to the individual or to the property owner, then the priority in terms of a response is much higher.

Justice committee  Yes.

Justice committee  Yes, that's how—

Justice committee  Yes, that's correct. I'm a police officer in the city of Vancouver. I'm a constable.

Justice committee  Thank you. Obviously a question like that would involve a very long and complex answer. What I can tell you is that all public police officers in this country are trained. The responsibility for training and policing falls to the provinces. All of the provinces have provincial training standards that require an extensive amount of training initially, when police officers are first hired.

Justice committee  Yes. I'm going to concur with the comments that my colleague from the bar association made. I touched on this in my comments. I think it's all in how the bill is introduced and how people perceive it, because I think it's fair to say that if the message is.... If somehow this encourages citizens or even private security personnel to more frequently arrest individuals who they come into contact with or believe have committed some kind of criminal offence in their proximity, then I think it's only reasonable to assume that there would be more litigation.

Justice committee  I do. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I apologize for not being there in person today. For those of you today who might not be familiar with the Canadian Police Association, we are the national voice for 41,000 of Canada's front-line law enforcement personnel. We represent police personnel serving in 160 police services across Canada, from Canada's smallest towns and villages to those working in our largest municipal and provincial police services, as well as members of the RCMP, railway police, and first nations police.

Justice committee  That's fair to say.

Justice committee  I'm the president of the Canadian Police Association now.

Justice committee  As front-line police officers, we can attribute the majority of the crimes that are committed to organized crime groups, or individuals involved with organized crime, or serious chronic offenders.

Justice committee  Yes, I agree with that, and I agree with the minister as well; I don't think any police officer that I represent would disagree with the notion that we have to get at the underlying issues and try to get people out of situations where they're engaged in criminal activity. But in the short term, that's exactly what we have to do: we have to find a way to protect citizens from being victimized time and time again by individuals who are involved in organized crime or those serious chronic offenders who are committing crime after crime after crime.

Justice committee  I think that's fair to say. I would take it even further and say that if you look at the cost to society and the economy of organized crime, those offences that are committed by chronic offenders, and the cost it takes to investigate organized crime and to investigate the chronic offenders so we can get them before a judge to see if we can get a conviction, those costs are more significant, I would argue, than the costs that everybody seems to be talking about with respect to Bill C-10 and the incarceration piece.

Justice committee  I've dealt with many young offenders who consider it a joke to be in the criminal justice system. There's no question.