Justice committee  Yes, they do.

Justice committee  The last number I saw was between 80 and 100. If I can't find it, Corrections certainly has that number. Then there are significantly more in the community. I can't remember now if it's in the 300 to 400 range.

Justice committee  Well, not all of them would be serving for first-degree murder. It used to be broken down according to first- and second-degree murder. I'm presuming it still is, but I actually don't know that answer, I'm sorry.

Justice committee  That's correct. I do know that right now there are two more women whose cases we're working on who are eligible, which will bring it up to twelve. Since the inception of the faint hope clause, there have been ten women who have proceeded, and there are now two more who are eligible.

Justice committee  The numbers don't surprise me, unfortunately. It's not as consistent for the women, because, again, we're working on the cases, so we're usually trying to ensure that the applications can go in as quickly as possible after the 15-year mark. The shortest period that someone has been able to have everything moved forward and get it before the court has been one year, and then it took another six months, or 18 months to get out.

Justice committee  That's right. That's one woman who was one of the ones—let's put it this way—recommended by Madam Justice Ratushny for review in the self-defence review. You can understand that the context was very different from most cases, and it was one where there was an argument that she probably should have never been convicted in the first place.

Justice committee  It's not just that, but because of her case. I would not be able to convince Correctional Services of Canada to have ready someone's paperwork to be filed for a parole application if they are successful in judicial review now. I've tried, and they have refused to do it. Until there's a decision, they won't work on the paperwork.

Justice committee  Sometimes, yes, because sometimes the victims were their husbands. And I know their children, and their children are the victims as well. So it depends on the individual circumstance. If in fact it is someone who would be an ongoing risk and would victimize, the mechanisms that are in place and the steps that the judge has to go through presumably would preclude it from going past that gatepost of the chief justice.

Justice committee  For the women who don't already have eligibility, the staff who work with them routinely in the institutions have talked about the fact that there is virtually nothing they can do. They have done all the programs they can do, or they're on hold because they aren't allowed to take the programs because they're so far away from any parole eligibility dates.

Justice committee  Certainly if they're in segregation or maximum security, they don't have it.

Justice committee  I apologize, but I will have to answer in English. Currently, I would say, the system could be improved, certainly in terms of greater access for those who are inside. Part of the reason I'm involved in all of the cases involving women is that when we first started tracking what was happening with the reviews, we realized that few people were applying: men were applying.

Justice committee  Yes. It's an activity I am directly involved with, although there have been one or two exceptions because of my language difficulties. So I was not involved in the cases of two women in Quebec. For all of the rest of the women--there were ten women who have proceeded--I've been involved in all their cases, to lesser or greater degrees, depending on, quite frankly, their own abilities to organize the materials and the level at which their lawyers are able and have time to devote extra time, because they're usually not fully paid for the entire project.

Justice committee  I can't speak for what's happening in the penitentiaries where men are serving time, but certainly in the women's prisons it is the rare woman who is entitled to have all of her documentation in her cell or in her room, depending on how it's described. They are supposed to have lock boxes in which to keep all of their documentation.

Justice committee  Given that I found out last night I was coming, you'll appreciate.... I apologize, I do not have a written statement. Our position, though, is certainly one of not wanting to see further restrictions on the use of section 745 of the Criminal Code, judicial review procedures. As I had indicated when I appeared at the Senate committee, in my capacity as the national director of the Elizabeth Fry Society I have worked with most of the women eligible to apply for a section 745 review.

Justice committee  Certainly, in terms of the women I know, the provisions as they currently exist.... Some women are already not eligible for reviews because they were involved with groups of people in situations that resulted in more than one murder conviction. In a context where they may not have been the primary actor, they nevertheless were and are being held accountable.