Justice committee  I'm sorry, I shouldn't have interrupted you.

Justice committee  We used the same definition that is provided under subsection 354(3), for consistency. At the time this was drafted, this was a definition that was consistent with industry practices. I think that if you want to look at the issues of letters as well, that would be covered under “mark”.

Justice committee  Not that I've ever come across. That doesn't mean it's not out there, but I have researched case law and I haven't seen that.

Justice committee  That's right.

Justice committee  With regard to the VIN, I think if you look at a plain definition of the wording used, it refers to a “number”. Normally in the course of using a VIN, it's an 18-digit number. But when you look at provincial licence plates, they have numbers and letters. So I think even with just a straight interpretation of this definition, it would exclude provincial licence plates.

Justice committee  I have just one more point to make. I'm not an expert on licence plates, but a licence plate is used to trace a given vehicle--not necessarily based on its make or model--to an owner. It's the process of identifying the person who owns the car. The vehicle identification number is the process of saying this car, for instance, was made in this factory, it is this make and model, and it is this year.

Justice committee  That's right.

Justice committee  That's correct.

Justice committee  Yes, that's correct. Joyriding is not a lesser and included offence, but actually a separate offence, and it is possible to be charged and convicted for both.

Justice committee  Yes, discretion is left with the prosecutors to decide on any given offence--but in this case in particular a third or subsequent offence--whether the facts of the case warrant proceeding by indictment, thus going after the six-month mandatory minimum penalty, or whether a summary conviction is the most appropriate course to take in a given fact situation.

Justice committee  The previous two convictions would not apply to joyriding. That's a separate offence under the Criminal Code. So it would have to be three convictions under the new offence of motor vehicle theft.