Industry committee  Just so I get it on the record and the department hears it very clearly, why do you think matters related to copyright must be dealt with explicitly in AIDA rather than in the Copyright Act? Does anyone want to comment on that? Could amendments to the Copyright Act be made instead of, or in addition to, explicit copyright provisions in AIDA?

Industry committee  It should also be more clearly stated that Bill C-27 creates responsibilities with respect to the Copyright Act, as the European Union has done. The accountability framework outlined in new subsection 12(5) moved by amendment to Bill C-27 could thus support policies and procedures concerning the Copyright Act and the use of an individual's voice, image or reputation.

Industry committee  This is a fundamental element to secure a future where human creativity can flourish. In its current form, AIDA is failing to protect and uphold fundamental copyright principles. We need AIDA to do the following, consistent with the protections being provided to creators under the EU Artificial Intelligence Act, also known as EU AIA. One, confirm that the use of copyright-protected content requires the authorization of the rights holder.

Industry committee  Either you can say that there are no exceptions for AI, that AI is like everything else, and you can do it in a bill like Bill C-27 and go back and reference the Copyright Act, or you can make the change in the Copyright Act and say that this is the case. We didn't create copyright for the printing press. We created copyright for Dickens and the recognition that the work was worth more than what you paid for it right away, and we extended term of copyright for sound recordings because people were starting to live to the point at which they could hear their song on the radio and not get paid, so we made that change.

Industry committee  Let me just start with that. One thing I keep hearing is conversations on intersecting with copyright. That's fair enough. I get that there are intersections of Bill C-27 and copyright, although we know that Bill C-27 doesn't deal with copyright. The Government of Canada is doing consultations and round tables.

Industry committee  Yes, I wanted to discuss the distinction between the Copyright Act and Bill C-27. The Copyright Act governs rights holders, whereas Bill C-27 concerns the construction and management of generative AI models. It's important to regulate that industry by means of obligations of collective interest, including compliance with copyright.

Industry committee  Now that we see the general application of it, it is ripping off bands you know and love with new songs that are rip-offs, or generating an image with copyright symbols in it because they ripped off a photo with a copyright logo in it. We know that it's stealing and scraping.

Industry committee  What we want to bring to light here is that when it comes to actors and performers, we are kind of on the outside looking in to the protections of copyright. We take a step back and say that the first problem for actors is that they don't have moral rights under the Copyright Act to protect them to begin with. Musicians got moral rights when Napster came in a couple of decades ago and started stealing their music.

Industry committee  Yes. Thank you for the question. Our view is that, while the Copyright Act offers a number of protections, when we look at the definition of “harm” within AIDA as it exists there currently, it is limited to individuals. Copyright law applies to individuals but also collectively, and we don't think that the current text offers enough protections in terms of copyright for rights holders, for creators or for authors.

Industry committee  In the brief we recently submitted to the departments of Industry and Canadian Heritage concerning the interaction between copyright and generative AI, we object to the idea of granting copyright to products that would be purely generated by AI. However, we aren't opposed to artists using AI as a creative tool and being able to continue enjoying copyright.

Industry committee  In the copyright laws, a few decades ago, when Napster happened, there was a decision made that they would give a certain level of copyright. There are different levels of copyright. This is called the moral right, and it allows musicians to defend music.

Industry committee  There is much emphasis on the opportunities for artificial intelligence in your field and your sector; however, there is also some trepidation you folks have within the AI space or within that technology. Eleanor and Marie, I'll start off with you. Is the impact of AI greater on the copyright side or the AI side, in terms of generative AI, where you may not need the individuals? I want to get that clarification, because we do have a copyright consultation going on right now, and part 3 of the bill, AIDA, does not pertain to copyright.

Industry committee  Can I just say, without casting aspersions on anyone, that this is an impossible game of three-card monte for stakeholders? The bill before Parliament is Bill C-27. There is a copyright review going on. If we don't comment on AI and its interaction with copyright during Bill C-27, we will have missed the boat. If we miss the opportunity to talk about it during copyright consultations, there's a high chance of it being suggested that we talk about it in Bill C-27.

Industry committee  My last comment would be to point out the perverse logic. The same entities that are busy mining copyrighted works to create something new want to disregard the copyright on the input but then seek the protections of copyright on the output. I want to point out that—just to get it on the record—humans are the creative drivers here, not software.

Industry committee  Just to finish my comment from earlier, I think it has been echoed that at the intersection of the two is that copyright is a framework for ensuring compensation and ensuring the application of moral rights and so on. In the context of AI and the uses of copyrighted material, we can create a framework for when that happens and how it happens.