National Defence committee  It depends on the nature of the program. Some programs the minister has more interest in than others. Some programs he won't get hardly any briefings on at all until the very end; others he will take more regular briefings on.

National Defence committee  That has been my experience with most ministers, yes.

National Defence committee  The minister can be involved in the challenge function. The challenge function simply asks if something makes sense. Certainly, when it comes to the issue of identifying the priority for resources, ministers are very much involved in the priority-setting for how our resources are expended.

National Defence committee  Okay. First of all, I must admit that during my time as Chief of the Air Staff, I was not aware of a plan that exactly looked like that. Certainly the concept of leasing versus ownership.... The Brits in fact leased their aircraft, the C-17s, and have subsequently discovered that that probably wasn't the best thing for them.

National Defence committee  Talking just about mobility, which would include strategic, tactical, and fixed-wing search and rescue, the most pressing need right now is in fact to replace the aging C-130s. Now, that said, it is going to take us a number of years. Regardless of what occurs, the Lockheed factory, once under contract....

National Defence committee  I'll very briefly answer number one and number three, and then I need a little bit more explanation on number two. Regarding the Aurora, it is our intent here to have an ISR--an intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance capability in the future. The UAVs or drones, as you refer to them, are complementary to a manned system.

National Defence committee  Absolutely.

National Defence committee  With respect to the e-mails, mine are open to access, so I certainly can make those—

National Defence committee  Number one, my recollection of a specific date is not.... We met with the minister a number of times, and I don't actually recall a question by the minister on the number of vehicles that either of these aircraft would carry. The minister's questions were largely, is the program going to be affordable?

National Defence committee  Right. The minister was not specific about which aircraft it was going to be. The minister said, yes, strategic lift, without doubt; it was in the platform. But that was a good thing, from my perspective, because at the end of the day, I believe strategic and tactical are both required to do the job.

National Defence committee  We have tried to put a combat-ready LAV III in a C-130. It's a very tight squeeze, and I don't think we can really do that. But I'm not quite sure what your question is with respect of that versus...? The concept right now with strategic lift is to be able to lift two of these into a theatre of operations, which I think is a capability the army very much wants.

National Defence committee  I have to say I am encouraged by some of the things I've seen. Certainly we have been guilty in the past of over-specifying. Very thick documents had to be produced that essentially laid out every bolt and widget and the requirements for each. It's a very good first step to go back to high-level mandatory requirements right now, and go out to industry and offer them the opportunity to meet these, recognizing that for the most part they're going to be able to meet most of those sorts of subordinate activities as well.

National Defence committee  Thank you for that. Unfortunately, my translation device has just died on me, but I believe I understood the intent of your question. For the most part, the Canadian Forces are among the best in the world at deriving the last useful piece out of any piece of kit we have. So as in the case of our Hercules aircraft, for the most part the oldest of them will probably be too uneconomical to continue to work with.

National Defence committee  What kind of aircraft are they?

National Defence committee  Very quickly, on the C-17, while it is a strategic lifter, it also has tremendous capability that can be used in the tactical realm. We will use it to help bridge that period of time when the older 130s are less available to us and we have not yet received the C-130J. It has great capability in terms of lifting into short airfields.