Industry committee  I think you could learn from all of the models out there in terms of what is being done right and what is being done wrong or not so right. The U.K. is set up differently in terms of their science adviser, for example, or their office of foresight, which is a huge office in the U.K.

Industry committee  Well, that's an excellent question. There are three different drivers. University is longer term, about learning. The private sector is about making a dollar, let's face it. Government is really about public good and the delivery of service to Canadians and the protection of Canadians.

Industry committee  Absolutely we feel that way. We feel that if students and the population out there in the workforce understood the commitment that some of the scientists make to the everyday life of Canadians, this would be a calling--absolutely--to young scientists to come and join the federal government.

Industry committee  Certainly Canada has some critical decisions to make. But I want to focus on the different aspects of public science. The private sector is required, government is required, and universities are required. It has got out of balance since program review. I know that right now in our federal government laboratories their inability to hire is related to no commitment by the government to long-term funding.

Industry committee  We weren't asked to contribute, I don't believe, but our science members certainly deal with it every day. We would love to have been asked.

Industry committee  First of all, STIC is another committee. There have been many committees over the years—CSTA is one, and I can name any number—that have looked at the state of science in Canada for the last 10 to 15 years. Committees are bureaucratic and, by their nature, will be slower. But Canada must move more quickly, and there's a better communication process with the national science adviser.

Industry committee  Well, I think if you look at what other countries are doing, they have national science advisers with that mandate, and Canada should be looking at what's happening in other countries before it maybe makes decisions about having just another committee, STIC, for example. I will point out, by the way, that PIPSC held an international science policy symposium in September, and we plan on doing it again.

Industry committee  I don't know exactly, but I will answer it this way: the panel who looked at moving the laboratories did consult with us, and we had an hour with them. So somebody is asking questions of us, because we do represent the scientists who work in science-based departments and agencies.

Industry committee  Yes, I would like to comment on several of those things. I appreciate Dr. Coulombe's answers with respect to NRC. But in the delivery of Canadian science, there are science-based departments and agencies that should all be connected, because they all work for the public trust.

Industry committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair and members of committee. The Professional Institute welcomes the opportunity to appear before this committee. PIPSC represents 55,000 scientists, engineers, and professionals across Canada's public sector, the vast majority of whom are employed in the federal public service, including in the NRC, Natural Resources Canada, Environment Canada, science-based departments, regulatory agencies, and field research stations.

Government Operations committee  Not to my understanding at this point. They are going through the same thing. We can research that and provide you with the information.

Government Operations committee  Yes.

Government Operations committee  We represent federal and, as mentioned, provincial employees. When they are hired into the federal and provincial systems, whoever they are, yes, we do represent them. The problem really is not ours, with all due respect; the problem is the federal system. Part of the issue here is that there are organizations that have standards on why they do accept people, for example, in engineering positions, certified engineers.

Government Operations committee  Well, that's not necessarily so. I'm going to give you the worst-case scenario. We have an energy lab in Devon, Alberta, and you know what's happening in Alberta. We have highly trained professionals who work in energy and look at innovative techniques, but there's the oil patch.

Government Operations committee  It's a good debate. I'd like to enter into it at another time.