National Defence committee  Actually, I have a small contribution. It's been there for a long time, and that's highly unfortunate, and your point is very good. You will see over the years that we have in the Canadian Forces what was called a conduct sheet. The members who were going out of the forces who had been convicted of an offence, if they wanted to have it pardoned, they had to basically open a criminal record to get the pardon.

National Defence committee  Good afternoon. Mr. Chair, members of the committee, I would like to thank you for inviting me to take part in the discussion on the amendments to the National Defence Act. Appearing before you is an honour, and I will do my utmost to rise to the occasion. This year will mark the 10th anniversary of the Lamer report.

National Defence committee  Yes, I did, actually. There's nothing to report. I was away on vacation. There is an issue even with the actual proposal you're making there. If it is a summary trial, there should not be consequences, because we know that some of the offences are treated the same way. Section 129 includes almost everything.

National Defence committee  On the director of defence counsel services.

National Defence committee  Yes, but you should specify that you want to see the study on the director of military prosecutions.

National Defence committee  They were for internal use. I really cannot say if they were made public or not.

National Defence committee  I don't have them with me, but if the JAG wants to table them—

National Defence committee  Studies are conducted to assess needs. One study was done on the office of the director of military prosecutions and another on the office of the director of defence counsel services.

National Defence committee  Again, I'm not saying anything negative about the former JAGs, because they did try to support the organization when we really needed something.

National Defence committee  That's what came out of the report we had. Because the director of defence counsel services had a different rank from what the prosecution had, there was the perception that they were not treated equally. There's also the fact that over the years the prosecution had a deputy and now has two deputies, while the establishment, at least to my knowledge, has not changed with the defence counsel services.

National Defence committee  If you read the reports throughout the years, there were comments saying we found out that members who had requested our services for the longest time never got to us. Sometimes there were even papers in the court martial files that got to us at late dates saying “We're ready to proceed, and by the way, you did ask for defence counsel services to be represented”.

National Defence committee  I held the position for seven years.

National Defence committee  In fact, I wrapped up a court martial case in August. I used up leave that I had accumulated until December 8, which was my official retirement date.

National Defence committee  In 2003, as a matter of fact.

National Defence committee  Yes, but to be honest, there is a difference here. The director of Defence Counsel Services has the power to hire counsel as needed, which in fact our office did on several occasions. For nearly four years, if not up until the fifth year, we tried to get across the idea that there was no maximum number involved when it came to hiring a lawyer on a general contract.