Agriculture committee  On the impact on food loss, we're looking at an increase of over 50% for food waste on certain products, which is dramatic. What's really scary is an increase in greenhouse gas emissions of over 50% because of the waste components that start occurring, from field right to the consumer.

Agriculture committee  I was just in Europe last week. We had the opportunity to have one of our team on a panel with German, Dutch and Belgian panellists, an individual from the U.K. and an Italian. There's great concern in the EU, where we're seeing a shift towards looking at how to move to a plastic-free environment for produce.

Agriculture committee  That's a very conservative estimate of the cost to grocers. The number was derived through work that we've done as an industry with Deloitte to understand what the cost of food will be based on the elimination of plastics. This isn't single-use plastic; these are plastics that could be recycled and put into a circular economy.

Agriculture committee  Currently there are some alternatives in the market. The industry continues to innovate; however, all these alternatives come with increased cost. If we are looking at using, for example, a clamshell for strawberries in moving to an alternative packaging format, the moisture level in strawberries does not allow for that product to be effectively shipped and transferred for the distances that we move product, whether from Île d'Orléans, from Ontario or from B.C.

Agriculture committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair, and good morning, committee members. I want to thank the committee for the opportunity to speak on the issues impacting Canada's horticultural sector. CPMA, as you know, represents 850 companies growing, packing, shipping and selling fresh fruit and vegetables, and is responsible for 90% of the produce sales in Canada.

Agriculture committee  Thank you, Mr. MacGregor. You hit it right on the head. The industry has been progressive. We have been working, actually since before 2018, to drive change in sustainable packaging. But there's a lot more complexity to where we're going compared with what the policy framework is suggesting under P2.

Agriculture committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Very quickly, there would be a dramatic impact with a 20%-plus cost to food and increased waste. Everything Monsieur Bourgoin mentioned was accurate.

Agriculture committee  It's a complex question. It is getting more complicated to do business. The challenge is beyond just the carbon tax. It also includes looking at the cost of borrowing and interest rates. The complexity and layering of regulatory burden on the industry is becoming a challenge. There are access to labour and the cost of labour.

Agriculture committee  It's a combination.

Agriculture committee  It's the culmination. It's the energy and the tax incentives for investment. A range of different elements link into that shift of investment from one country to the other. You add in the packaging. A range of elements come into play. What was the second part of your question?

Agriculture committee  I'm happy to sit down and also work with the Ontario Greenhouse Vegetable Growers to look at where and how those cost centres truly impact growth in the marketplace. My chair was former president of BC Hot House.

Agriculture committee  It's a great question. Thank you, Ms. Rood. The opportunity to be part of the discussion in the working group and to provide input through the steering committee was given to Loblaws and Walmart. They leveraged the opportunity to use the Retail Council of Canada and other association channels that were available to them.

Agriculture committee  This is very concerning, and I appreciate your bringing this up on committee. Ninety per cent of what packaging does, it does before the consumer sees it. If this moves forward, the notice will remove all bagged salads. It will remove all value-added...so all of the clamshells of fresh-cut blueberries and strawberries, all of the products that you would get out of California—or shipped from Mexico when we're not in season—would be removed from the market, just because they wouldn't be able to make the journey.

Agriculture committee  We have requested a pause and a regroup. I know that the department is very focused on achieving a goal and trying to look at what solutions would be available. The discussion isn't about what the P2 notice looks like; it's about whether the P2 policy model is the right model. We don't think it is.

Agriculture committee  Right now, if we're looking at the carbon tax, we see that the issue is that the carbon tax imposes.... I'm going to take the greenhouse industry, because it's one of the key industries in our sector that relies on natural gas to heat; and because of the nature and climate we live in, it's an essential part of their business.