Human Resources committee  It's not considered to be a human right. That's right.

Human Resources committee  I think the Canada social transfer should have conditions attached to it. I know conditionality is pooh-poohed and people say it's impossible. I don't agree that it's impossible, and I'm seeing that move in the United States and in other countries as well, where you just simply say, in order to get this money, you need to meet our international human rights standards, which means social assistance rates have to be set at a realistic level.

Human Resources committee  I think what Ms. Milne is saying about women and the need for a gender lens absolutely applies to all disadvantaged groups, and we can name them and give you the rates of poverty for each group. People with disabilities are amongst the poorest in the country. Absolutely we need to be examining this from the point of view of persons with disabilities, and presumably you'll be hearing from or you have already heard from one of the organizations representing their interests.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. Actually, I don't share your concern, to be perfectly honest. I think the LIM is a decent measure and it's an international measure, so I think it's useful. I've never been an advocate for a poverty line necessarily. I think we kind of know how we're doing in the country, to be honest, and when the numbers are as high as they are, we know that we have a problem.

Human Resources committee  I think that in some cases there's going to be a link and in some cases—Harriett McLachlan is one—there won't be a link. I think poverty is incredibly complex, and the paths into poverty and the persistence of poverty in someone's life can be very complex.

Human Resources committee  Unfortunately, there aren't a lot of programs to direct people to in the country at the moment, beyond income assistance or welfare programs, and there are some scant housing programs, etc., so what can I say? One of the things we are very concerned about at Canada Without Poverty, which is quite difficult to deal with and has been a persistent problem, is the low level that social assistance is set at across the country.

Human Resources committee  I would only add that social condition has been recognized across the country in many human rights acts, at the provincial and territorial level, as a ground of discrimination. It's clear that it is a matter of human rights. One's social condition has an impact on how one is treated in our society, unfortunately.

Human Resources committee  Thank you. International human rights law says that state governments have to realize economic and social rights progressively, that is, over time. They can't sit back and put their feet up on the table. They have to realize that it takes progressive steps, and they have to use their maximum available resources.

Human Resources committee  Sorry, are these questions for us or...?

Human Resources committee  I just wanted to give her the opportunity. She's in a disadvantageous position. Would you like to commence, given that there's a direct relationship with what you discussed with respect to women?

Human Resources committee  Thanks for the question. There is a lot that the government and governments—I use the plural because, of course, housing is a multi-jurisdictional issue. It's the federal government, as well as the provincial government, as well as municipal governments. There's a lot that can be done to improve the housing conditions for the lowest-income folks in Canada.

Human Resources committee  Thanks for the question. Yes, it's absolutely essential that there be some coordination, bearing in mind the sensitivities around federal jurisdiction versus provincial jurisdiction. But there's no doubt that we should at least be striving for some kind of national standards. I actually think the federal government could be showing some real leadership and not just taking its hat off to commend the provinces, all except B.C., and territories on what they have set out to do to reduce poverty, which is a great thing.

Human Resources committee  Good morning. I am Leilani Farha, the executive director of Canada Without Poverty, and the UN special rapporteur on the right to adequate housing. I am going to pick up where Harriett left off, on this idea that poverty is a violation of human rights, and I'm going to try to give it some life and some meaning.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  In actual fact, in my scenario the woman did not flee to a shelter. She fled to a friend's house, and that is an important distinction. I didn't say whether the woman had children or not, but when a woman with a child who's experiencing violence leaves the home, often she will not go to a shelter.

Procedure and House Affairs committee  You said it yourself. It's not that easy, and I certainly wouldn't disagree. Homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and missions are extremely busy places, seeing hundreds of people. The idea that you can just waltz in and get an attestation letter, as I said earlier, is quite ridiculous.