Finance committee  We would prefer that the money be left in the pockets of working Canadians to go out and spend in the economy, because the overhead administrative costs—11¢ for every dollar that makes it into the pocket of a recipient—are unheard of. Those support the economy in the national capital region, obviously, but it's not an efficient system and it should be reformed.

Finance committee  It's the most direct tax, because you can't shelter it by putting money into retirement savings. It's a regressive payroll tax, and it has an immediate effect on diminishing consumer spending in Canada, which is—

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee. We welcome this opportunity to present to you on behalf of our 84,000 supporters across Canada, the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, Canada's oldest and largest taxpayers' advocacy organization. We realize the first-ever appearance by the leader of the official opposition to a parliamentary committee is a tough act to follow.

Finance committee  So we bring you that reminder in the spirit of the day and in the new spirit of reviving classical languages at the Commons committee meetings. With regard to the debate around the future of Canada's supply of workers, we remain troubled that since the financial meltdown of 2008 the average Canadian couple—each partner earning $50,000, at least—between them and their employers, they're sending $934 a year more to Ottawa in employment insurance payroll taxes than they were at the onset of the recession.

Finance committee  The numbers speak for themselves: fewer than 100 for cause dismissals in a workforce of 193,000 people in a year.

Finance committee  There's no question that people working outside of government have to make do with considerably less, certainly in extended benefits, and certainly in pension benefits. So much has been made of these 19,000 reductions in government employment. But in the space of six months, from 2008 to 2009, over 440,000 people lost their jobs—when government employment at the federal level was going up by 8,000 or 9,000.

Finance committee  Mr. Caron, one of the easily foreseeable consequences of this is that at arbitration hearings bargaining agents, unions, will bring evidence that taxation levels have been artificially suppressed or are too low and that the government in fact has the ability to pay. Those arguments will be made before an arbitrator.

Finance committee  Yes, he was reinstated by the public sector labour relations tribunal.

Finance committee  It's absolutely paramount. We have a situation in Ontario where we have a province that's the most indebted of any provincial or state government in North America, largely as a consequence of arbitrated settlements for government employees at the provincial and municipal levels.

Finance committee  Yes. It is an unfortunate aspect of the way government, so far, has chosen to describe the way it compensates government employees, that a misleading impression is created. Government employees have a substantial array of collectively bargained benefits: pension entitlements, sick leave, personal days, extended medical and disability benefits.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of the 84,000 supporters of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, we welcome the opportunity to speak about the changes in Bill C-4, and we thank you for inviting us. There's no question that something has to be done about the work environment in the Government of Canada.

Finance committee  Well, I think you're talking about both, aren't you? You acknowledge that there is a tremendous amount of illegal exportation of revenue—

Finance committee  —and concealment of revenue that is legally taxable in Canada. That's a huge problem, and that's something that Canadians for Tax Fairness have talked about. They—

Finance committee  Yes. We obviously denounce all illegal use of tax havens and we strongly encourage every Canadian corporation and person to pay every penny of tax that's owing under the law in Canada. To the extent that there are people who think it's cute to take advantage of being able to move money out of the country or use techniques that are outside the law, we denounce that.

Finance committee  Yes, that is what is happening with the pension plan in Canada.