Human Resources committee  We have the skill set.

Human Resources committee  We have a very strong research function within our department already. We have a very strong evaluation function within our department. Both of those are applied social sciences. We already measure things in the context of our program evaluations and in the context of our research.

Human Resources committee  Yes, I do.

Human Resources committee  I do. Also, I think I said earlier that the more you do, the lower the costs become. As I said, there are already large bodies of research upon which to draw, but also thinking in the federal context, we already do a lot of cross-jurisdictional work. For instance, with the provinces and territories my team co-chairs a poverty advisory committee.

Human Resources committee  Which sector, government?

Human Resources committee  I think that there are probably different costs. Again, I am not speaking from experience. I am speaking from a comparative perspective, knowing how other countries have managed this. The first cost is a transaction cost, just from the legal dimensions of having to make contractual arrangements related to social finance or a social impact bond.

Human Resources committee  Thank you very much. I want to thank the committee for giving me the opportunity to return to speak today. I am pleased to be here with my colleagues from the Department of Finance and the Canada Revenue Agency to address any final questions you may have, or indeed to provide you with clarification on particular points.

Human Resources committee  You're welcome.

Human Resources committee  Yes. That's a great question.

Human Resources committee  Yes.

Human Resources committee  There is no official textbook on it, but I would say that the area is growing in abundance. In the three years that I've been working on it, there certainly is increasingly more information available to people. There, we have to thank the intermediaries that I talked about before, for putting out reports based on projects they've been involved in, but also the academic institutions that are starting to get involved.

Human Resources committee  Thanks for your question. It's a partnership. In order to achieve those different parts of the equation, the social and the finance, you need to be able to bring together people who have a stake in one or both. On the pure social side, I would say that you bring together the community groups, whether they're not-for-profits or charities.

Human Resources committee  That is definitely the idea. It's that you would achieve a double bottom line, a financial return and a social return, or a triple bottom line if you add environmental into the mix.

Human Resources committee  I agree that organizations such as the ones you defined emerge from the community. I'm looking to other countries that are more advanced than Canada in using social finance models. I've not heard about concerns such as the ones you've expressed. I guess it depends on the mission of the organization, but everything I've heard is about how to allow these kinds of organizations to preserve their mission.

Human Resources committee  Those are great questions, thank you. On how to assess the risk in order to determine the return on the investment, I think criteria are being developed. I say that because, in the area of social impact bonds in particular, which are the most risky, there are enough now that have been launched across different countries that data is being developed so that you can do that.