Justice committee  No. I can answer how I want to do that, sir. Actually, yes. When prostitution is between two or more consenting adults, I feel those consenting adults should have the ability to decide for themselves what they want to be doing.

Justice committee  That's right.

Justice committee  Yes, that's because we—

Justice committee  How does whether I am employed or a volunteer.... I'm still not sure how.... Maybe Joy could explain how my employment impacts this bill.

Justice committee  It's not—

Justice committee  I don't think it's pertinent to this discussion whatsoever.

Justice committee  I am the executive director.

Justice committee  Pardon me? What does my job have to do with the legislation that we are discussing today?

Justice committee  That is because studies by the Swedish government have shown that the criminalization of clients did not in fact make a considerable difference in the amount of people doing sex work. What it did, though, because of the harassment and targeting of sex workers on the street and the difficulty in accessing clientele, was to move a lot of them indoors, with a lot of them starting to work in massage parlours and more out of sight.

Justice committee  Sorry?

Justice committee  That's okay. The answer is no. I guess the question you're asking is about people saying that “women are bought and sold”, or referring to “buying women's bodies”. Frankly, that language is victimizing. That language is dehumanizing. It's also extremely sexist and problematic to talk about people in that manner, as if we are objects.

Justice committee  Frankly, no. I don't believe in a world without prostitution. It's not only that, but if the goal of this committee is to actually end prostitution, this legislation will not succeed in doing so. It definitely would not be my choice to end prostitution. But if that is the committee's intent—

Justice committee  Hi there. My name is Jean McDonald. I'm the executive director of Maggie's: The Toronto Sex Workers Action Project, an organization that's run for and by sex workers, and is the oldest of its kind in Canada. Our mission is to assist sex workers in their efforts to live and work with safety and dignity.