Status of Women committee  My answer is no, as well. I think, as Jennifer said, from “Creating Choices”, we've seen this radical shift away from the sorts of things that witness was saying they're doing. They may think that's what they're doing, but that's not what's happening. There's been this radical shift from the sort of approach that was first articulated in “Creating Choices” back in 1990 to this sort of risk-centric, security-centric approach, and that's making many of the women's facilities look not very different from the men's facilities.

Status of Women committee  Oh, sure.

Status of Women committee  I think we're setting people up for failure right now. Are we setting people up for more failure? It's hard to say, but we're putting people out at warrant expiry who've had no transition to community. I think the indigenous communities obviously are wanting people back in their community, but many people who are indigenous do not live on reserve.

Status of Women committee  There aren't many that are specifically directed at indigenous women. I think that indigenous women's organizations are always struggling. It's sort of a question of whether you put out the fire or fireproof your house. I think we're often putting out the fires for the organizations that are working at this non-profit community level.

Status of Women committee  Maybe I'll just quickly say that I like to think that I look too young to be so cynical, but I don't expect that corrections is going to volunteer to change. Any positive change that we've seen that's happened behind prison walls has really come because people outside have noticed and we've cared.

Status of Women committee  That's right.

Status of Women committee  I'm going to try very hard to stay within the seven minutes.

Status of Women committee  Thanks. Madam Chair, honourable members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to participate in this study. Following on Ms. Metcalfe's remarks, my focus today is on a few big-picture considerations that I hope will help frame your approach to the study. Meaningful systems-level change for indigenous women affected by or engaged with the criminal justice system cannot be achieved through criminal justice or corrections interventions alone.

Justice committee  I would add to that very briefly, if I may. By having all sorts of different groups, historically disadvantaged groups and individuals throughout Canadian society, with some representation in the process in which decision-making happens, you wouldn't have what Ms. Landolt is concerned with—only one perspective as part of the decision-making.

Justice committee  My French is terrible. Thank you.

Justice committee  Yes. I'm having a bit of difficulty.

Justice committee  As several other people on the panel have said, litigation is expensive, and as you can imagine, constitutional litigation requires amassing a considerable evidentiary record from lay witnesses and expert witnesses. Even if you're able to secure pro bono lawyers, who are willing to do all of the legal work for free, there are all sorts of disbursements that you need to fund, such as bringing those experts together, paying for those experts to provide reports for the court, typically through three levels of court, and at the trial level.

Justice committee  Like how much it would cost...? West Coast LEAF has not launched a full-on test case before. Yet, as LEAF had mentioned in their submission, we typically have taken an intervention strategy wherein we intervene when a case is already brought by other organizations. But I know from my work as a lawyer that a large constitutional test case can cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Justice committee  Why do we need the court challenges program? Thank you.

Justice committee  Thanks, Kasari. West Coast LEAF is pleased that this committee is discussing the reintroduction of the court challenges program of Canada as part of your study on access to the justice system. Alongside robust civil and criminal legal aid programs, funding for larger scale court challenges is necessary to support the enforcement and advancement of equality rights on a systemic level.