Justice committee  Absolutely not. I've worked for many years completely independently. I would also question the language of “pimp”. If by “pimp” one means a manager, then of course one can work with or without one. It is the case, though, that if you have somebody watching out for you, it can help with things like bail costs, security, and navigating the system.

Justice committee  I was 17 years of age and I found myself on my own. I struggled for a bit trying to find employment as somebody who was below the age of employment in many more traditional fields and I started working on the street. I entered into it with a lot of trepidation and a fair amount of fear and yet I found for me, quite quickly, it was something I was competent at and I was comfortable with.

Justice committee  I'm hesitating for a moment because there are many different models and approaches to regulating sex work in different areas across the globe. I will say that some of the models, like those to which you're referring, are what can generally be called legalized models. Legalized models create very strict and limited circumstances under which certain people are able to work, as opposed to, say, the model in New Zealand, whereby it's not about creating really oppressive conditions; it's about removing the criminal law and allowing existing employment, occupational health and safety, and public health laws to come into play instead.

Justice committee  Yes, indeed.

Justice committee  No, I think the opposite is true.

Justice committee  If I can draw a parallel to the old bawdy house laws, we know that in Canada there were relatively few bawdy house convictions, but in Bedford, the Supreme Court found the fact that the law prevented us from having safe, stable places to work was a violation of our right to security of person.

Justice committee  That would be an excellent parallel, yes.

Justice committee  I think it's quite clear that we take very divergent, even opposing positions on this issue. We all have very different lived experiences, and even when we have some shared or similar experiences, we interpret those very differently. It is indeed the case that the trading and selling of sex exists along a whole spectrum of experiences and contexts, with trafficking being at one end and people more freely selecting sex work at the other.

Justice committee  Yes, because we're now having to live and work in a context where all sex work is considered an inherent form of violence, when actual violence does occur, sadly the attitude is, “Well, that's what you signed up for.” That's what I'm speaking to, and it's something we see quite regularly.

Justice committee  Yes, except in cases where somebody is prepared to identify as being trafficked, which is where lies our concern about the focus and resources going into trafficking, because as I think we've heard some people say, unless you identify as being trafficked and unless that's the way you are forced to interpret it and present your experience, you're going to be denied access not just to police protections and the court process, but also to other social services, largely because at this point in time a lot of the funding that's directed to people who sell or trade sex is specifically for anti-trafficking initiatives.

Justice committee  Good afternoon, and thank you for the opportunity to address you today. My name is Kara Gillies. I have 30 years' experience in multiple areas of the sex trade. Today I am representing the Canadian Alliance for Sex Work Law Reform, a coalition of organizations across Canada working for law reform that supports the rights and safety of people who sell or trade sex, including safety from exploitation and trafficking.