Information & Ethics committee  I think it's part of the overall data ecosystem, as some people refer to it, in which we find ourselves. It's that movement that I spoke about between private and public sectors, the flows of data from private sector to public sector. There's a tremendous amount of mobility data being collected by all kinds of actors in the private sector.

Information & Ethics committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the invitation to address this committee on this important issue. The use of mobility data and the reaction to it highlights some of the particular challenges of our digital and data society. It confirms that people are genuinely concerned about how their data are used, and it also shows that they struggle to keep abreast of the volume of collection, the multiple actors engaged in collection and processing, and the ways in which their data are shared with and used by others.

Industry committee  I think control is the issue. Right now our privacy laws are weak in comparison to, for example, the GDPR, in terms of the rights of control they give to individuals. They are also weak in terms of the enforcement if there are breaches of those rights. The rights of control are tremendously important, and I think we have work to do there.

Industry committee  I think ownership is misleading. It's misleading and it's a distraction because there are these multiple competing interests. A company or an organization, an entity, that has collected data has an interest in that data, as does the individual from whom it's collected. To start talking about ownership in that context is meaningful.

Industry committee  It's an interesting concept. I have to confess that it's not one that I've thought a lot about. I don't want to waste your two minutes hemming and hawing and thinking about it.

Industry committee  I think we're getting to a point where we need to have international standards, because we are constantly running up against, for example, very low thresholds for data protection, which are below our own, with respect to U.S. companies, and this causes enormous problems. How we will get a consensus internationally and whether it will put us above or below the level of protection that we currently have is anybody's guess, but we do need to have some sort of international privacy consensus.

Industry committee  I think that's a really interesting question to unpack. I have trouble separating my own skepticism about the technology from the issue of whether it should be mandatory. For example, a lot of these technologies, depending on the design and depending on which one it is, depend on the effectiveness of COVID-19 testing.

Industry committee  I think it's hard because in a sense you almost create a context that is not the realistic context we live in. You have people who don't have phones. You have people who don't have phones that are of the right model or operating system. You have people with perceptual disabilities.

Industry committee  You're saying opt-out, yes.

Industry committee  Yes.

Industry committee  It does, yes.

Industry committee  My understanding is that there was already a privacy impact assessment that was carried out on the Alberta app. That's what the privacy commissioner of Alberta is reviewing. She is, I think, having discussions with the Alberta government. I think that's why we haven't yet had a verdict.

Industry committee  My understanding is that there are discussions taking place in Canada and in other countries, especially where there is a large workforce, about how people will be able to return to the workplace and be safe. In that context, they are designing, developing and looking to implement contact-tracing apps within the workplace.

Industry committee  Yes, I always have concerns about how data collection and use is going to take place, especially as we move into a time of big data analytics and artificial intelligence, because the uses can go beyond what we've even imagined before. I do think we need to have strong privacy legislation in place and strong accountability and oversight.

Industry committee  Thank you. I was just reading about how Northern Ireland, which is part of the U.K., has declined to implement the U.K. contact-tracing app in favour of adopting a solution that's compatible with the Republic of Ireland, with which they share an island, because that's their choice.