Industry committee  I did highlight that in the opening remarks, but I'm happy to engage. You're right. When we look at what we just saw most recently involving Rogers and Shaw, it's understandable why people would be skeptical about the creation of a tribunal that provides that kind of oversight.

Industry committee  I must admit that I'm genuinely surprised at how hard it becomes. I think part of it is because, as you will see throughout the course of these hearings, you end up with people coming from all different perspectives. This isn't a big political winner. I don't get that sense. I think it's critically important legislation, but it's not the thing that is seen as necessarily driving votes, so it tends to slip.

Industry committee  It's in Canada's interest to get right what is a critically important issue—appropriate regulation of artificial intelligence. The idea that we want to race ahead with no consultation is just the wrong way to do something that all Canadians have an active interest in. We saw the government do the same on the generative AI guardrails, which were conducted privately, in secret, over the summer, and then rushed out with practically no public discussion.

Industry committee  We, as individuals, of course, ought to be the ones who own and certainly control our own data. That doesn't mean we can't make decisions about how organizations use that information, but what it requires is legislation that ensures we have that effective control, that it's informed—you heard several witnesses talk about the problems with things like implied consent—and that there are real penalties when organizations run afoul of what they've committed to Canadians or to the law itself.

Industry committee  When the minister first came to committee and suggested a whole raft of changes, and then indicated that the government was not prepared to provide the actual text of those amendments until clause-by-clause, to me, that broke the hearings. It broke them for my fellow witnesses and for the many witnesses to come.

Industry committee  I do. I think that would provide clarity in how it is interpreted by the commissioner, obviously, as well as by the courts, and it would provide a strong signal from the legislative branch of the importance it accrues to privacy. However, as I mentioned, in many respects, I'd love to see this in some core provisions that are ultimately going to serve as a testing ground when there's analysis, when you make the determination, for example, of whether consent is appropriate or whether it is for the appropriate purpose.

Industry committee  Thank you very much, Chair. Good afternoon. As you heard, my name is Michael Geist. I am a law professor at the University of Ottawa, where I hold the Canada research chair in Internet and e-commerce law and am a member of the Centre for Law, Technology and Society. I appear in a personal capacity representing only my own views.

Information & Ethics committee  I think that the—

Information & Ethics committee  Thanks for that. I'll respond by saying that I do think.... I mean, you're highlighting a number of different things. I would say that COVID Alert does provide you with a better example of ad campaigns, of multiple ways of trying to advertise and communicate so that people are aware of what's taking place.

Information & Ethics committee  Thanks for the question. Thanks for bringing back some of the early stuff that was written at those very early stages of COVID. I think in some ways that really does highlight how essential it is to get the frameworks right to have the kind of transparency and the guardrails that we're talking about.

Information & Ethics committee  The kind of consent required under the law does vary depending on the sensitivity of the information and the like. The fact that it's “for good” isn't really the factor that we would think about. We would think about the sensitivity of the data. We would think about whether or not the consent was informed and the like.

Information & Ethics committee  No. I don't think it is.

Information & Ethics committee  I'm just going to respond that in fairness, I don't think my response is shifting over to consent. I think my point with respect to COVID Alert and my point here is that if you want people to trust in these programs, you need to explain in as many forums as possible and as clearly as possible what data is collected and what's being used.

Information & Ethics committee  Sure. I can try. I would start by noting that my read of the commissioner's response was that he felt that his office should have been more actively engaged in this process, so I recognize it—

Information & Ethics committee  Fair enough. In terms of public transparency, I think your point highlights how this issue is often addressed by organizations, whether in the government or in the private sector, which is to say, “Hey, it was all there. All you had to do was go out and find it.” Most people don't know what BlueDot is.