Canadian Heritage committee  Conceptually, what has happened with the education sector is that the lion's share of them have abandoned collective licensing in exchange for guidelines that are in fact not fair, in exchange for giving themselves the authority to copy without paying. What would solve this would be to go back to collective licence and have an agreement whereby educational institutions can make copies of works in exchange for a payment.

Canadian Heritage committee  That's a very good question. In preparing for this session, I was talking with the general manager for Pearson Canada. It's the largest educational publisher in Canada and in the world, I believe. She was telling me she had received a call from [Technical difficulty—Editor] asking her whether or not they were going to update their history textbook to reflect residential schools more appropriately.

Canadian Heritage committee  I just want to highlight the fact that the Federal Court at trial and the Federal Court of Appeal both concluded that the fair dealing guidelines that are adopted by all of the universities across Canada and that were put together by the association that Mr. Landon represents are in fact not fair.

Canadian Heritage committee  I hope we will achieve the goal soon. You are asking me what my state of mind has been. What I find unfortunate is that we have been trying to move this file forward for almost 10 years. If the government does not get involved, we will have another 10 years ahead of us. Whether we win or lose in the Supreme Court, I don't doubt that we will get involved in another dispute to, once again, try to clarify the fair dealing guidelines.

Canadian Heritage committee  All right. I'd like to thank Mr. Rayes for the opportunity to explain the recommendations that were part of the report. Basically, one of the recommendations clearly calls for a return to licensing through collective societies. The other two recommendations are intended to address the technicalities around that return to collective licensing.

Canadian Heritage committee  To some extent, Mr. Landon's comments reflect the other side of the situation you mentioned. However, it's important to point out that [Technical difficulty—Editor] facts are misunderstood on both sides. For example, Mr. Landon talked about the hundreds of millions of dollars universities already pay in copyright royalties.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. Access Copyright is a not-for-profit copyright collective created in 1988 by Canadian creators and publishers to manage the reuse of their works by educational institutions, businesses and not-for-profits. Collective licensing facilitates access to works while ensuring that creators and publishers are fairly compensated when their works are used.

Canadian Heritage committee  If I could add something, the system of collective licensing was created precisely so that the entire book doesn't have to be bought all the time. It provides that means of accessing without having to pay the full price of all books all the time for every student. It's also important to keep in mind—because I think that because of all of the noise we hear about this and all of the efforts that are made to evade having to pay—that we have the sense we're talking about incredible sums.

Canadian Heritage committee  The expenses are mostly for the licences university libraries must purchase. That claim that the educational field has already paid for reproductions through those licences, was also raised by your university during the hearings before the judge. In the case of York University, a study was done and it showed that the works that were being used in its learning management systems and the works that were used in printed course documents, involved reproductions that were made under the fair use regime.

Canadian Heritage committee  May I comment?

Canadian Heritage committee  If I may add as well, there's no doubt that there is digital disruption. Every industry, every business, is going through digital disruption, and it will never end, but what is really important in the context that we are dealing with and why we are here today is not to be distracted by claims that digital is what is causing the ailment for the writers or publishers.

Canadian Heritage committee  The only thing I will add is that what benefits creators, publishers and Canadians generally is a functioning marketplace, not handouts.

Canadian Heritage committee  Sure. I think the most important thing to assess, whether the purposes have been expanded as a result of education being added to the Copyright Act or something that the Supreme Court has done, is whether the end use that is being done by the education sector is fair. Ultimately, that's what's important.

Canadian Heritage committee  Again, I think the only survey that was done of copying, and the only determination of whether it is licensed or unlicensed, is the survey that was done in the York case. The claim that York University was already licensing the content or that it was digital disruption that was having an impact on writers and publishers was presented by York University as well, in very similar terms and using the same arguments that you've just quoted from Professor Geist.

Canadian Heritage committee  Thank you. Thank you for the invitation to appear today. My name is Roanie Levy and I am president and CEO of Access Copyright, a not-for-profit copyright collective. I will be sharing my time today with professional writer Sylvia McNicoll. She will provide you with a creator's account of the current copyright challenges.