International Trade committee  I don't think the agreement provides any opportunities. I think it provides obstacles. I do agree that there are many opportunities to lower Canadian drug costs, which are about the third highest in the world. We have a very generous system of intellectual property protection for brand-name drugs already.

International Trade committee  I think that the number that was published by CCPA and peer-reviewed is a credible estimate. I would like to see, as I said, the internal official estimates and, again, I think you should ask for them. I'll just point out that a lot of the savings that you've referred to, over the last 10 years, depended upon the availability of cheaper generic substitutes for more expensive brand-name drugs, and that will be impaired by the changes in CETA.

International Trade committee  Thank you for the question. I think it should be clear from my remarks that you have to make a distinction between international trade and trade deals. Trade deals, increasingly, encroach upon matters that are only peripherally related to trade. Most of the low-hanging fruit of trade liberalization has already been harvested.

International Trade committee  Again, I actually do appreciate the question. I think that if governments do not listen to constructive criticism of trade agreements, say of the type that was heard from Wallonia and their First Minister, Paul Magnette, there is a risk that you will get the demagogic criticisms that we saw surface and lead to a path of victory south of the border.

International Trade committee  I think it's true that it's very difficult to estimate the future costs. You should ask Joel Lexchin and Marc-André Gagnon these questions. They picked a representative sample of current drugs and estimated how many days the entry of generics would be delayed based on those two changes that I referred to previously.

International Trade committee  I think it could have quite a serious negative impact in Canada—if it is eventually put fully into place...it won't be provisionally applied. There's still quite strong concern about it in Europe, and each member state has to ratify it. Having said that, to expand the system under which we've been so attacked under NAFTA I think is quite unwise.

International Trade committee  Thank you. The analysis that was published by CCPA, and subsequently published in a peer-reviewed journal, was by two academics, Joel Lexchin and Marc-André Gagnon. The study was done in 2013. The $850-million-per-year figure that I just cited comes from the two changes that are in the final CETA text, the supplementary protection certificates, which can extend patents by up to two years, and a new right of appeal in patent linkage cases.

International Trade committee  I'm going to address the CETA today.

International Trade committee  You asked why—

International Trade committee  Mr. Hoback—

International Trade committee  Thank you. Well, Mr. Hoback, as you're aware, there were a number of, I would say, unanticipated obstacles in Europe to the signature of CETA, which were placated through the development of a joint interpretive instrument. I don't believe your committee has studied that instrument.

International Trade committee  I'm not convinced it's a good deal on the basis of my long study of the text, but not every Canadian has had that opportunity. Certainly only a very select number of stakeholders have been invited to participate in these particular hearings, which are quite important.

International Trade committee  I'm not aware of any witnesses speaking to the consumer and health implications of the patent changes. If you contrast the process to that for the trans-Pacific.... If you'd just give me an opportunity with a timeline to answer, I'll be brief. If you contrast the CETA—

International Trade committee  Thank you, Mr. Eyking. Thank you for the opportunity to be part of your deliberations on whether or not Canada should ratify CETA. Today I wish to emphasize three areas where the costs of ratification for Canada outweigh the modest trade benefits. These problematic features are among the main reasons the deal has become controversial, especially here in Europe, and why it is extremely worrying that CETA is being pushed through both the Canadian and EU parliaments with limited debate.

International Trade committee  The approach I would favour is perhaps the one that Canada took when it negotiated the free trade agreement with EFTA, that is, with Iceland and Switzerland and countries outside the European Union. It's essentially a tariff liberalization agreement that relied mainly on the World Trade Organization to address all these other issues around services and investment and standard-setting.