Justice committee  But not every case will necessarily get reported in the database.

Justice committee  Yes. I'm not sure that the Justice Canada report says that the majority of those cases involved those kinds of factors. Certainly, that would not be the case based on the data we have in our database. I would also underscore that this is why it's really important that our application of the criminal law be informed by the science.

Justice committee  Thank you to the members of the committee. I want to take a moment to thank Alex for sharing those stories of people living with HIV, and what is some really incredible and groundbreaking research, and really important in underscoring to the members of the committee why this is an issue of such concern to people living with HIV and those of us involved in the HIV response in Canada.

International Trade committee  The answer is no. I think it's worth noting that in the CETA negotiations one of the major areas of concern has been the investment chapter, and that has been one of the major stumbling blocks, particularly in Europe, because of the potential negative consequences of it. I'm not sure why we would want to replicate that in the TPP, especially when we already know, from our own experience under a similar chapter in NAFTA, that it creates the opportunity for pharmaceutical companies to try to challenge our flexibility, in this case, patentability criteria.

International Trade committee  Yes. I was going to say harmonization can be a good thing, but we shouldn't assume that it is. If you harmonize down to the lowest common denominator and you sacrifice to the public interest, that's not good harmonization. If Jimmy jumps off the bridge, it doesn't mean we should too, right?

International Trade committee  Thank you. I think we can debate a bit what would constitute a fair scenario. I think it's fair to say that all WTO members agreed on the TRIPS agreement, the agreement on intellectual property rights, back in 1994. All of the discussion now globally, except in the context of these particular trade agreements, is about the need to preserve the balance that was struck in the TRIPS agreement, whether the balance that was struck there was the right one, or whether we need more flexibility for countries because we're not getting either the innovation that we need in the pharmaceutical sector to address global health needs or the access to those products.

International Trade committee  Certainly. Thank you for the question. There are others from the industry here, I think, who can also speak to direct experience of how those things operate in practice, those linkage regulations. The existing notice of compliance regulations under the Food and Drugs Act allow for an originator pharmaceutical company to file what's called a notice of allegation, alleging that a generic manufacturer that is seeking marketing approval of its generic equivalent version of an originator drug will infringe its patent.

International Trade committee  Yes. I have two quick points. It's important to remember that one of the commitments made by the originator pharmaceutical industry when NAFTA was adopted with more stringent IP provisions and less policy space for Canada was that they would commit to 10% of sales spent annually on R and D.

International Trade committee  —the extension of patent terms beyond what already exists, which will apply in both Canadian and other TPP member states; the locking in of our linkage regulations that tie marketing approval of generics to claims of patent infringement by brand-name companies; and provision that the Supreme Court of Canada has already declared to be draconian would be locked in by the TPP, locking in data and market exclusivity provisions, and so on.

International Trade committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the committee for the invitation to appear. I am the head of an organization that works for the human rights of people living with HIV and of communities particularly affected by HIV, both in Canada and internationally. We are also a member of a larger coalition of organizations that are concerned about access to medicines.

Industry committee  That's right. I will continue in English, if I may. The majority of the 5.2 million people who are receiving HIV treatment now in the developing world are on generic medications because that's what has made it affordable. That's how we've made the progress Mr. Lake was referring to.

Industry committee  We haven't seen that so far. You would have to ask them.

Industry committee  Thank you. Let me just address two points quickly, to get back to the question that a few people posed. The first point is the issue of diversion of medicines, which of course we don't want to see happen. Dr. Kilby put it very well. We have to take some risks here. The legislation preserves the measures that were already negotiated and in place to mitigate the risk, to minimize the risk of diversion happening, and, let's not forget, that we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good here.

Industry committee  A few weeks ago, the Prime Minister announced to the UN what Canada's contribution was. I can't remember the exact figure, but I think it was five dollars per Canadian more or less. So you can do the math.

Industry committee  Definitely. In our assessment, and in the assessment of those who've tried to use the current system and the experts who have looked at it, if we make these changes, we dramatically increase the chances of it being used again to get medicines out the door. I don't think it's premature, after six years, and I don't know how many avoidable deaths, to say the system is not working.