Canadian Heritage committee  You're raising good points, sir. I would like to remind you that we tried as best we could to protect CBC North. There were only between two and four positions taken out. I can't give you a final number yet.

Canadian Heritage committee  Let us define whether you include that in CBC North or not. In those particular regions right now, we are still waiting for the final counts from the voluntary retirement incentive plans. We have ranges of expenses right now and we have people we're looking at in terms of where they're going to fall.

Canadian Heritage committee  The answer to this statement...and I'm not sure what context his answer was in. I'm going to repeat my answer, sir: 800 jobs is the number of jobs that we have right now identified as cuts to CBC/Radio-Canada. Bridge financing would have allowed us to reduce that number, but it would have been an important—

Canadian Heritage committee  No, I don't offhand.

Canadian Heritage committee  No. Do you mean for an overall employee? I think $76,000, but on the television side it may be a bit higher—$84,000 to $85,000. Those are the numbers we work with, yes.

Canadian Heritage committee  Oh, sure, sir, and that's why we keep coming to you and saying that for all the services that CBC/Radio-Canada delivers to Canadians, the cost to Canadians is $34 per person, and that ranks us number 15 out of 18 of the western countries that were surveyed by Nordicity. That's why, when we keep looking at this $34 number for all the services we provide across a country as large as we have, with six time zones and two official languages, we keep saying that this is a number that makes it difficult for us to continue delivering services for Canadians the way a public broadcaster wants to.

Canadian Heritage committee  What we've tried to do at CBC/Radio-Canada is to look at a way to best use our dollars. In the current environment, we've had conversations, for example, in Brandon, where we have told CTV that we can't afford to pay the affiliate fee anymore but will provide them with our own programming free of charge.

Canadian Heritage committee  Yes, he's responsible for all of CBC.

Canadian Heritage committee  The source of this $125 million has not been completely determined. We are currently looking at various options that would allow us to generate $125 million in income. We have identified two possible solutions. The first is to begin or step up repayment of certain amounts that are owed to us as the result of various transactions.

Canadian Heritage committee  We are selling off debts. I'll give you a quick example. Let's assume that CBC/Radio-Canada sells something for $10 million, and the amount must be paid in instalments of $1 million per year over 10 years. After the second year of the agreement, $8 million still must be recovered, and the corporation now wants to get the $8 million.

Canadian Heritage committee  What we have done, Mr. Rodriguez, is that we've adjusted our costs accordingly, that is, to account for the fact that there will be 800 fewer positions at CBC/Radio-Canada. As a result, our costs have gone down. Our plans do not include an increase in advertising revenue for next year and only a very small increase for the year following that; we are not talking about significant dollars.

Canadian Heritage committee  Mr. Rodriguez, that's why we're here today. We have come here to tell you that CBC/Radio-Canada must not be excluded from the incentives program that the government or the CRTC are in the process of setting up.

Canadian Heritage committee  That's why I am repeating the message loud and clear this afternoon.

Canadian Heritage committee  We have stated—and I'm pleased that you are asking me the question again—that any amount we would receive for fee-for-carriage, the infamous royalty so to speak, should go toward a priority that the CRTC has identified: Canadian programming, dramas, local programming. We are willing to make that commitment, for we have said we would and we have repeated that statement before the CRTC.

Canadian Heritage committee  The answer is that bridge financing would have helped us, sir. I think that's what Richard was saying also. Bridge financing would have been a method to reduce the number of job losses at CBC/Radio-Canada, because it would have meant gaining time. It would have meant perhaps not selling assets to be able to pay for—