Finance committee  That's correct.

Finance committee  You're assuming, though, that it's just as efficient to use cash. Yes, there's the $2 paid for that $100 transaction—

Finance committee  I'm trying to answer your question.

Finance committee  Okay. If you stop me—

Industry committee  Let me answer your question. First of all, you implied that my research is financed by Visa. I announced that, and it's certainly the case. But like loyalty programs, professors have brand names. I say what I believe. If the message is consistent and Visa wants to subsidize it, that's clear.

Industry committee  No, no, but that's the—

Finance committee  Let me answer your question. First of all, you implied that my research is financed by Visa. I announced that, and it's certainly the case. But like loyalty programs, professors have brand names. I say what I believe. If the message is consistent and Visa wants to subsidize it, that's clear.

Finance committee  No, no, but that's the—

Industry committee  I think the system is working well, and we do want to allow as much competition as possible. We also have to realize that there are economies of scale, so within any platform you're not going to have a large number of players, but within that system we have within, say, the Visa or MasterCard system, competition between acquirers and competition between issuers.

Finance committee  I think the system is working well, and we do want to allow as much competition as possible. We also have to realize that there are economies of scale, so within any platform you're not going to have a large number of players, but within that system we have within, say, the Visa or MasterCard system, competition between acquirers and competition between issuers.

Industry committee  We certainly have, as far as interchange fees, a laissez-faire approach. A number of countries do in fact have the laissez-faire approach. As far as I can see, the system is working. The interchange fee, which has been complained about by the retailers, certainly changed in complexity in April 2008.

Finance committee  We certainly have, as far as interchange fees, a laissez-faire approach. A number of countries do in fact have the laissez-faire approach. As far as I can see, the system is working. The interchange fee, which has been complained about by the retailers, certainly changed in complexity in April 2008.

Industry committee  There's plenty of regulation in the Canadian Payments Association and whatnot. The question, I think, before this committee, and what the retailers want, is regulation of the interchange fees. The question is why? What's the problem? As far as I see, interchange fees have been stable in Canada for a long period of time.

Finance committee  There's plenty of regulation in the Canadian Payments Association and whatnot. The question, I think, before this committee, and what the retailers want, is regulation of the interchange fees. The question is why? What's the problem? As far as I see, interchange fees have been stable in Canada for a long period of time.

Industry committee  Briefly, I can't see how competition could hurt. Whether you want to loosen regulation on Interac is something else. I hear merchants saying that if Interac comes in, it's going to charge a higher price and take over the system. That's inconsistent. It's hard to believe that a competitor could come in, charge a higher price, and take over the system.