Transport committee  Well, Mr. Sullivan, it's interesting. We undertook a series of focus group discussions across the country over the past couple of months. We held two of them in Vancouver. Folks who were participating in those groups were asked to explain P3s. They did that quite well. Were they supportive?

Transport committee  There are several. In the health sector, Bridgepoint hospital is a public-private partnership. It's a stunning example. Governments own the hospital sites, so it's the Government of Ontario that owns Bridgepoint, but they did a complete redevelopment of that site by entering into an agreement with the private sector, which included PCL and some other developers, Plenary and others, which in fact redid that site, produced a terrific hospital through a design-build-finance-maintain approach, and at the same time took on the Don Jail that was right next door and in fact enabled the prisoners to move on to other maybe not any more luxurious accommodations, but to move on.

Transport committee  First of all, I don't think it's appropriate to say that there are only a small proportion of projects that are worthy of being P3s. What I said in my remarks is that 10% to 15% of all infrastructure projects in Canada are procured using the P3 methodology. Frankly, there's great opportunity to increase that percentage.

Transport committee  First of all, Ms. Young, thank you for the question, because I was beginning to feel a little left out.

Transport committee  With respect to the Canada Line, we at the council view that particular project as the shining star in the portfolio of P3 projects around Canada. There were significant costs and unbelievable timelines to have it delivered because, of course, as you may recall, it was a facility that had to be in place before the Olympics.

Transport committee  Good afternoon, and thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee, the clerk, and staff for inviting me to speak with you today. The Canadian Council for Public-Private Partnerships is a non-partisan, not-for-profit organization, with more than 400 members from government and the private sector right across Canada and further afield.

Finance committee  Mr. Chair, could I be so bold as to just mention to the committee members that should they wish to learn a little more about public-private partnerships, the council runs the largest conference in the world. It will be held in Toronto, November 3 and 4.

Finance committee  I was just going to add that you're absolutely right, Mr. Keddy, that the next iteration of P3s in Canada will be driven very much by municipalities and the aboriginal communities across Canada. They will by definition be equally complex projects, but significantly smaller. There is a real need now to think about how we might recalibrate the P3 model in order to accommodate that next wave of projects.

Finance committee  This is a question probably best addressed by the pension funds, but I'll take a shot at it. I think there are a couple of things at play. With respect to pension funds, the bottom line is that they tend to be risk averse, because they have to ensure they have a continuing stream of returns on their investment to meet their pension obligations.

Finance committee  There are examples right across the country. We could start with British Columbia. The Canada Line, the transit system that connects the airport to downtown Vancouver, is an exemplary case of a successful public-private partnership. It is the best example, in the sense that the private sector took on responsibility for the design, construction, financing, maintenance, and operations of that system.

Finance committee  P3 projects make sense where you can demonstrate that the value for money for taxpayers is better than preceding with more traditional design-bid-build approaches. There are several advantages of a public-private partnership, but the principal advantage comes back to the point that Mr.

Finance committee  There are actually no examples in Canada where a P3 has gone ahead and has been a failure.

Finance committee  I'll make a couple of comments. Several projects you've mentioned are not P3s, so I would have that discussion with you about that.

Finance committee  UQAM is one of those. It's not a public-private partnership. The second thing, as I mentioned earlier, is P3s are not a panacea, but when they're done for the right reasons and when the contracts are structured appropriately, they have delivered results for us time and time again.

Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your patience.