Status of Women committee  There probably is a general lack of knowledge amongst the Canadian population about our income security programs, about financial information generally, particularly among women--and particularly among older women. It has been suggested that there is a role for the federal government to at least provide the information that people need, not to interfere with what's happening in the school system but to put the information out.

Status of Women committee  We have a regular distribution list of people who seek our publications, but that's more at the university level. I was going to comment just anecdotally that I learned about Canada's income security programs in graduate school. So I agree with you, it's a bit late. It's either then or through experience; when you run up against the problems with a program, then you start understanding it.

Status of Women committee  I'll turn to John to talk about that, perhaps, because he's in the process of writing an aboriginal report for the council. On that one, it's just so hard. Trying to understand the trends, from some of the limited data we have, is tricky too. It's important to recognize that comparing the aboriginal population to the non-aboriginal population with any of the measures we have is a bit limited.

Status of Women committee  Especially in terms of the major income transfer programs.

Status of Women committee  Yes: it's a good idea.

Status of Women committee  That's a really easy question. I'll answer it on two levels, I think. Starting with the Quebec experience, I think it's really interesting; they have looked at putting the infrastructure in place first. They focused not on specific, one-by-one policy areas but on the mechanisms and the things that will make it run.

Status of Women committee  Thank you. It's an interesting question. I should preface this by saying that what I'm about to say is not a council position; it's just kind of some things I know, and my thoughts on things. First off, dealing with the seniors population, there is a really neat income-splitting thing for seniors that it appears a lot of people don't know about.

Status of Women committee  As Robert alluded to, though, it really is a very complex thing that needs to be sorted out. Any time you make one change with one population, you have to see how it affects others, and I understand that income-splitting for tax purposes runs into a few problems. First of all, it gives kind of a tax subsidy to those households compared to lone parents, who can't split with anybody and have to do all the work and earn all the income.

Status of Women committee  There are some things that are not necessarily directed to women, but recommendations have been made generally on increasing the replacement rate. CPP provides only 25% of income. That's a generalized thing, but for women specifically, one of the recommendations I've heard put forward, by Monica Townson and others, is to build on the child-rearing dropout formula for allowing the system to kind of compensate for time that was spent outside the labour force, or with very low earnings, raising children, and to look at expanding that for other kinds of care-giving.

Status of Women committee  Thank you very much. Very briefly, according to my experience, the departmental officials are right, in a way; Canada really is looked at as a model for the CPP and the way it works. One of the reasons it works really well is that it does have those particular features in it that address a lot of women's needs, like the child-rearing dropout.

Status of Women committee  One of the things a kind of guaranteed living income would do is remove a whole portion of pathology from people, those for whom it really is income poverty that matters--people who are competent, and capable, who know how to manage their money, whose lives are in order, but who just don't have enough money.

Status of Women committee  Charts 8 and 9 show that. The top chart looks at poverty rates for women 15 and over, so this is basically all adult women. If you look, for example, particularly at the bars belonging to a visible minority group, look at the very high red bar for unattached individuals--this is all women--and go directly below that to look at those unattached members of a visible minority, you see that it jumps from 55% to 69%.

Status of Women committee  Thank you. It's very interesting that you raise that question. As I mentioned, we just finished a four-day council meeting in Quebec City, and that was one of the things that was talked about in those discussions, the idea of having some sort of guaranteed annual income or guaranteed living income; I've heard it described in different ways.

Status of Women committee  Thank you very much. As you've done the introductions--and as, I understand, we have limited time--I will launch right into the presentation. I would like to say, though, on behalf of the chair of the council, John Murphy, and the members, who met this past weekend in Quebec City, thank you very much for inviting the council to appear.