Public Accounts committee  It's probably not perfect, but it's fair.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chairman, this is an area we addressed in the report. We're concerned that they are not doing that, and it's one of the things we're recommending: that they look to benchmarking and look to best practices to understand both the work flow and cost structures of their work, so that they can make management decisions that I think are necessary.

National Defence committee  Very quickly, Mr. Chair, I could simply add that throughout the process, and even ongoing, internal audit provides us with periodic briefings on its management of this file. So we are aware. We have had a briefing on the department's action plan for responding to the weaknesses that became apparent as a result of this unfortunate incident.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Very briefly, again, as we indicated in our report, we believe the initial response of the RCMP to the matters raised was an adequate response. With respect to the remaining ones, they committed at the time of making the report to dealing with them, and we are pleased at the reaffirmation of that commitment that we've heard from the commissioner today.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I apologize. But it's been drawn to my attention that in presenting the opening statement in paragraph 5, I apparently had a senior moment and indicated the amount was $4.3 million. The correct amount is $3.4 million, as stated in the chapter.

Public Accounts committee  Mr. Chair, this is an estimate that we developed in looking at the books. We believe it is owing, to the extent that ultimately the charges can be validated.

Public Accounts committee  We're comfortable that the RCMP's response to the recommendations or the matters raised by the internal audit and the OPS investigation was adequate. They have indicated that on the additional matters we identified, they agreed with us, and they will be acting to respond to those.

Public Accounts committee  The issue that arises here is that you can control so many things, but if the ethics and values of senior management are not sufficient so that they control themselves from overriding those controls, then, in essence, no matter how many locks we put on the treasure chest, eventually they'll get in.

Public Accounts committee  In the original business case that we referred to for the outsourcing of the pension and insurance administration, we were not satisfied, given the rapid escalation of costs after the initial business case, that there had been a proper challenge and review of that business case.

Public Accounts committee  The amounts were an estimate that we generated based on our work. Tracing those amounts through and then providing a basis for how they should be returned to the appropriate fund was a difficult task. We in the RCMP, at the end of the audit, as indicated in exhibit 9.1 in the chapter, had been able to identify about $270,000.

Public Accounts committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair, for inviting me to discuss the audit of the RCMP pension and insurance administration. With me today is Gordon Stock, principal of the public safety team, who is responsible for this audit. I'd like to take this opportunity to provide committee members with an overview of our findings related to the RCMP's response to the abuses in the administration of its pension and insurance plans.