Finance committee  Mr. Kelly, we used to have international tax units that were very well organized and could work together more effectively to produce those kinds of documents, but those units were broken down some 10 or so years ago in favour of interspersing these tax experts within more generalized teams.

Finance committee  I was going to mention to you, Mr. Easter, that it doesn't matter what you call me as long as you don't call me late for committee.

Finance committee  Thanks for having us. My name is Debi Daviau, and I'm the president of the Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada, or PIPSC. It's the national union that represents some 12,000 auditors and other tax professionals at the CRA across the country. Our members are skilled professionals and knowledgeable tax experts who ensure that powerful corporations and wealthy individuals remain just as accountable as the rest of us.

Finance committee  A whole process has to be gone through when members need to be recertified, so if there's a devolution to the province or vice versa, the provincial employees join the federal workers. A process would be undertaken under the labour board to determine which union would represent each of these members.

Finance committee  Yes, in a super quick 10 seconds. You're oversimplifying this. The federal Income Tax Act is four inches thick. You just can't put it all on the same form. You need to take a step back and figure out a mechanism to simplify it that's driven more by informatics, artificial intelligence and some of the solutions we have for the future.

Finance committee  Yes, I certainly believe that, from a worker's perspective, which is really the only perspective that we can bring, harmonization is a great idea. Their jobs are so much more complicated because of the need to deal in two different tax regimes. It limits the ability to be able to collect taxes as effectively as possible.

Finance committee  I'm sorry but I don't have the numbers. I could probably put them together for you and have them sent out to the committee. There are those other places because Canada Revenue Agency is a federal organization and more and more it's been trying to decentralize out of Ottawa—which is something that seems to be desirable to most representatives—and to make sure there's a federal government presence in communities right across this country.

Finance committee  That would probably be an easier question for Canada Revenue Agency to answer, but we'll do our very best to get that together.

Finance committee  Sure. I'll start. We don't have the actual numbers, so we're speaking in generalities. Those numbers you can get from CRA or Revenu Québec. I can tell you this: This is like a make-work project. Every dollar that is spent transferring this responsibility to the Province of Quebec is money lost, money that could have better been invested in other areas, in tax evasion, if you will.

Finance committee  All the experts say the same thing. They say that progressivity and tax fairness dissipate as we decentralize the tax system and allow provinces more autonomous ability, I guess, to do what they need to do. That isn't always in line with the best interests of all Canadians.

Finance committee  The question ought not to be, should Canada take over Quebec's taxes or should Quebec take over Canada's taxes? The question ought to be, how do we simplify taxes for Quebec residents? I certainly think there is a way. I mentioned automatic tax filing. That would help a large percentage of individuals not to have to deal with a complex, two-form system.

Finance committee  For the most part, my members are working on large corporate taxes, not on individuals' taxes, as Mr. Brière's members do. They do earn slightly more—I don't have the average—because of the knowledge and aptitudes required to work on those complex international and large corporate files.

Finance committee  Yes, for sure. I'm not a tax expert, honestly; I've just educated myself on this issue. I've looked at a lot of experts' writings on this, and all the evidence shows that the more we decentralize a tax system, the more regressive that tax system becomes—for example, Marc Lee in 2007 and Kesselman and Cheung in 2004.

Finance committee  Thank you. I just want to say that I also live in Quebec. I live in Gatineau, and I work in Ontario. Don't get me wrong. I would love to see a simplified tax system. I really struggle with this, but I am not willing to put thousands of jobs on the line for that. I am not willing to put, potentially, a billion-dollar investment into that just to simplify a system that is working but that is maybe a little bit complicated.

Finance committee  I just want to address the issue of tax evasion. It is not a simple matter; that's for sure. As representative of a union that represents most of the auditors Canada Revenue Agency engaged in this work of going after tax avoiders and tax cheats and getting offshore money, I can tell you that very complex systems are needed and very complex interactions between jurisdictions are required.