Agriculture committee  Oh, it's not the entire problem. We also saw the Bank of Canada print hundreds of billions of dollars right out of thin air, so it's not the only problem. I mean, look, the whole point of the carbon tax, the whole—

Agriculture committee  That's a great question. It's tough to say just how much pain that's really going to cause. Look, everyone knows that farmers aren't just pools of cash who can continue to pay higher tax after higher tax after higher tax. Really, only two things can happen: either at least some of the costs make their way to the till and hurt families who are struggling to afford the jug of milk or the ground beef; or supply goes down.

Agriculture committee  Well, I think the best analysis that has been done is by the government's own independent budget watchdog, the PBO. It looks at all of the costs from the carbon tax compared to the rebates. This year alone, the carbon tax will cost the average family between $402 to $847, even after the rebates.

Agriculture committee  When you increase costs for farmers, Canadians pay more for groceries. When you increase costs for truckers, Canadians pay more for groceries. I'm Franco Terrazzano. I'm with the Canadian Taxpayers Federation. I'm here on behalf of 235,000 Canadian taxpayers who want you to stop hiking the taxes that make it more expensive for farmers to make our food, for truckers to deliver our food and for families to buy that food.

Finance committee  I think making it more expensive for people to fuel up on their way to work is a tax plan, not an environmental plan. I think many Canadians right now are struggling. They have been struggling through two years of the pandemic, and they are struggling now with high inflation. I think we also need to look around the world at what other countries are doing.

Finance committee  The tax on tax is completely unfair, and as inflation increases, Canadians are paying more because of the tax on tax. When fuel goes up, the tax on tax costs Canadians more. When the carbon tax increases, the tax on tax costs Canadians more. I've spent a lot of my time talking about the carbon tax hike, after carbon tax hike, after carbon tax hike in the middle of the pandemic, but there is also going to be a second carbon tax coming in through fuel regulations.

Finance committee  It's not sustainable to spend more money on everything forever. That's not a good way to try to run the finances of a nation. In our budget, we're showing that you could actually balance the books with modest spending restraint. Just bring program spending back to the prepandemic and all-time-high levels of 2018-19, even adjusted upward for inflation and population growth.

Finance committee  That's a great question. If the CRA isn't going to tax it, then why do they want to know how much you sell your home for? Are they just curious? I've never known the CRA to just be curious. What's so frustrating is that the Liberal Party in the last election—Mr. Trudeau, during the leaders' debate—said that they wouldn't bring in a home equity tax.

Finance committee  Unfortunately, among our peer nations, it's not good. I have the results from the 2021 international tax competitive index in front of me. Canada ranked 20th out of 37 OECD countries on tax competitiveness, which is two spots worse than Canada's 2020 ranking. It also puts us in the bottom half of the pack among our peers.

Finance committee  Interest charges next year, according to the PBO, are going to be about $42 billion. That's $42 billion that can't improve health care and can't stay in Canadians' pockets through lower taxes because that money is going to the bond fund managers on Bay Street. Look, the Bank of Canada has one job, and it failed to do its one job.

Finance committee  It's a reaction to out-of-control spending for years. I mean, out-of-control spending drives up the cost of living, so I think that's exactly what the reaction is to. Let me just get back to Alberta because we've heard the government, time and again, mislead Canadians by claiming that households get more money back with their rebate, but of course, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has shown that that's magic math.

Finance committee  Oh, I certainly agree that the government created the perfect storm for inflation, which is too many dollars chasing too few goods. We've seen tax increases here in Canada while other countries are reducing taxes. Fifty-one other national governments have cut taxes to ease the burden of inflation or during the pandemic, including many of our peers.

Finance committee  Thank you, Member, with respect. I heard something about seniors, and you know who's really getting hammered by the inflation tax? It's the seniors who are living on fixed income. What we've seen is out-of-control spending for years. Before the pandemic, the feds were spending all-time highs, even after accounting for inflation and population growth.

Finance committee  I think it's the worst possible time. I think it should have been a no-brainer, at the very least, for the government not to raise taxes when so many people lost their jobs and when so many small businesses were worried that their savings wouldn't keep the lights on. Now we have people who are trying to drive from Port Hope to Richmond Hill for work and can't afford to fuel up their cars.

Finance committee  What we think is that at the very least, it should have been a no-brainer for the government not to raise taxes in the middle of a pandemic—