Finance committee  The Department of Canadian Heritage did bring in a very innovative program that would help cultural institutions develop endowments. It was a very practical step. This was, I'm afraid to say, under a previous government. However, they excluded museums from that program, so we have not had the tools and mechanisms by which to develop long-term tools.

Finance committee  There are bridges to be built. That's my point.

Finance committee  It would be most welcome to hear some good news. We haven't had any for quite a while.

Finance committee  Another reaction our community has had is that we seem to be grouped with a number of organizations that are now considered to be wasteful, inefficient, and not delivering appropriate services. That, to us, is a complete surprise. The general public certainly thinks, and I think most people believe, that museums—like libraries, like universities, like other public institutions—are important and fundamental to a well-civilized society.

Finance committee  Quite simply, what will be happening is instead of having exhibit openings, we're going to have exhibit closings. Museums are going to close. We've already seen that. In Quebec City, le Musée d’art Inuit Brousseau closed last year. It was a terrific museum dedicated to Inuit art.

Finance committee  I just wanted to add a key point, Mr. Savage. The cuts came right out of the blue, as it were, to us. We had been under the impression right up until then that museums were being considered a priority, both by the party and by the minister, and given the recommendations that have come from two standing parliamentary committees.

Finance committee  I'm actually the executive director. I'm going to defer to the president of the association, who's the top elected officer. His name is Cal White. He is the director of the Toronto Zoo.

Canadian Heritage committee  We're very familiar with this program. We were involved in its inception and in fact pushed for it. We're very pleased with this program. Could it be expanded and improved upon? Yes, it could. I think we now have a number of years of experience under our belt. We've seen there have been no claims and the program has worked very smoothly, and we would hope the program would be broadened to include a wider range of exhibitions.

Canadian Heritage committee  I'll answer the second question. I'll let my colleagues deal with digitization. In terms of significance, there is a program that works very nicely, and I mentioned it a minute ago. It's called the cultural property program. The cultural property program certifies objects that are of national significance.

Canadian Heritage committee  Yes.

Canadian Heritage committee  I don't think we're at odds. I think she was talking about what programs exist, and she did acknowledge that many of those programs had very few resources. We think many of those programs that exist are wonderful; don't mistake me. The problem is that most of them do not have adequate resources in them.

Canadian Heritage committee  In the room with us today are many people from across Canada, but a lot of people here are involved in the small museums in Ottawa. About a year ago, the City of Ottawa threatened to cut down and close many of these institutions, similar to Abbotsford. Citizens spoke out, with rallies and demonstrations and petitions and all of that.

Canadian Heritage committee  There could be. It's a distinct possibility. It's a United Way approach. The only thing is many museums have their own projects and they would want to continue and maintain their own. We established a foundation for such a purpose when there was a crown donation incentive, but as you may recall, that has disappeared.

Canadian Heritage committee  Indeed. One of the few truly wonderful incentives that does exist for museums is the movable cultural property program whereby donations of certified cultural property are exempt from capital gains, similar to what the government has just done. But they are also 100% deductible.

Canadian Heritage committee  Mr. Bélanger, I did want to say that in terms of the endowment question, on average the museums in the United States receive 11% of their annual operating income from the endowments they have. In Canada the endowments museums have are minimal, if they have any at all.