Transport committee  ATAC, airline passengers; that's the obvious example.

Transport committee  The minister has already said that there are no plans to reduce staff in civil aviation. You asked whether we have any budget forecasts? We do budget forecasts for a five-year period for this type of budget. However, we do have a human resources plan for the next three years. My team has a human resources plan for civil aviation, as for all other modes of transport.

Transport committee  Exactly, and it would be without fear of reprisal throughout the company. That's very important. Before, in this situation, and I'll use the same example, if somebody found a loose nut, they would try to find whose fault it was. Then it would be, “It's Joe's fault. Let's fire him.”

Transport committee  Companies that have implemented SMS, like Air Transat, for instance, have seen a major increase in the number of reports. At the same time, they have told us that they have seen a significant increase in the morale of employees, because you encourage people to talk to each other.

Transport committee  I haven't suggested anything, sir.

Transport committee  The minister has indicated that he is ready to table an amendment to the legislation you have in front of you.

Transport committee  Well, no, but he made an offer to you to put this.

Transport committee  Yes.

Transport committee  Under the old system, I would say that there would have had been a remote chance that one of our inspectors could find a loose nut. He would have had to fall on it by pure accident, so to speak. The chances of that loose nut being observed by a mechanic and the mechanic signing before the aircraft had to go to meet the schedule were far less than with the SMS, because he would fear reprisal because he would delay the plane.

Transport committee  All the provisions to do that are there. And it's not only during the first years, but forever. If in ten years we found out that a company has not applied the SMS properly, we would take action. We could still go back there and do regular inspections, as we did ten years ago, or we could do a full audit of the company, because all of the regulations stay there.

Transport committee  Yes. Everybody is stuck in the same situation as we were a few years ago; that is, the rates of accidents have been going down significantly, as the minister mentioned, since the sixties, but in the last five to ten years or so, or since the mid-nineties, the rates of accidents have been virtually flat.

Transport committee  What is being proposed here is enforceable. There are a number of provisions in Bill C-6 that would make the situation quite different from what it is in rail. The Railway Safety Act does not provide for very stringent enforcement action. For instance, there are no monetary penalties, and there's no way to lift an operating certificate.

Transport committee  The budget has not changed in the last five years for civil aviation. It is about $140 million, which is the biggest share of safety and security.

Transport committee  We thought the main estimates discussion was on May 7, but should you want this earlier, we can write you again with that. I don't have the specific answer, especially for regulatory oversight, on the way we split our budget, but it's a good chunk.

Public Safety committee  We're preparing the list. We're not going to publish the number of persons on the list.