International Trade committee  As I said, the Europeans keep claiming they have reduced their export subsidies, they have reduced their blue box subsidies, and aggregate measures of support as we measure it under the WTO. The reality is that the level of expenditures under the CAP, the community agricultural policy, from the commission has increased in agriculture, and it continues to increase.

International Trade committee  My experience with parmigiano reggiano is that they're playing a hard bargain. They tried to register it as a trademark. We opposed it, so they could not register parmigiano reggiano, even though it's not used in Canada; we produce parmesan. The problem is that they interpret their name, parmigiano reggiano, in any language, as where there is parmesan.

International Trade committee  I'm thinking very much the same: the tariffs. Now that we've converted most of the import measures and control measures in the tariffication system, it remains the tariffs. The GI is the one that we have particular concerns about because we know they're pushing really hard. We have a particular concern with negotiating on a bilateral basis versus a multilateral basis.

International Trade committee  I don't think the industry has actually looked at this particular proposal. I'd be quite happy to raise that issue, if that's a compromise. There has been discussion internationally among the industry—I was in New Zealand last November—and people are trying to see, within the context of the WTO, because again I'm stressing the link, about setting some conditions on how you could do it to satisfy the Europeans, but mostly looking forward, looking to new geographical indications rather than to some of these very traditional ones that have been in use around the world for many years.

International Trade committee  If it goes through and you protect their industry, we won't compete because we can't compete. Right now we have over 20,000 tonnes of cheese imported. We're in the same situation, with different tariffs, even on the access, where we see differences similar to those you see in potatoes.

International Trade committee  In most bilateral agreements, at the start of the negotiations, the countries used to cite the sensitive products that they didn't want to put on the table. In the context of Europe, the objective was to aim for a 90% opening to the tariff lines, but without excluding any sensitive production or industry from the negotiations.

International Trade committee  Absolutely.

International Trade committee  I don't have the market figures, but parmesan is a large market. You see Kraft. Whether it's finely grated or in another form, it's the North American cheese markets that are enormously important. By no longer using the name, we would automatically lose the trust of consumers who look for those names, those who choose their products based on the variety of cheeses.

International Trade committee  I'm going to answer a little more broadly. First, thank you for your comments, Mr. Guimond. I'm going to continue a little with what Michael was talking about earlier. The current problem is that the countries have chosen two different approaches. Europe, which had regulated prices, decided to convert its prices, to deregulate them by converting subsidies.

International Trade committee  Maybe I'll start on the GI. I think we're unanimous within our industry that you should not allow the GI to be opened up. This is a negotiation that is also being done at the WTO, where the Europeans have been pushing very hard. Most of what we call the new world, whether it's Australia, New Zealand, the U.S., or Canada, have all had their cheese industry developed in the same way: by immigrants who brought their recipes and sold their cheese to their compatriots.

International Trade committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. Once again, I'd like to apologize on behalf of Mr. Laforge, our president, who is a farmer from New Brunswick. He tried valiantly to get to Quebec for his flight but didn't make it. Mr. Chair, on behalf of the Canadian dairy producers operating 12,965 dairy farms, I am pleased to appear before this committee to present our views on the ongoing trade talks between Canada and the European Union.

Agriculture committee  Producers over the country are investing over $100 million in promotion. That includes school meal programs, nutrition programs, advertising, and marketing. Those tend to be generic. A lot of advertising is also carried out on a joint basis. We will invite brands to join us as well.

Agriculture committee  In outline, yes; not all of it.

Agriculture committee  I do not know whether the concern is in that small part or in the fact that the agreement does not exclude supply management specifically. The dairy industry benefits from export subsidies. That was determined by a panel that looked at our export subsidy program. We lost that advantage a few years ago because we had a two-tier price.

Agriculture committee  I can tell you that, in most bilateral agreements that Canada has signed, at the outset, we excluded supply management rights that had been negotiated at the WTO, as was also done with NAFTA. I understand the Canada-Europe context, and the understanding at the beginning, before the talks began, excluded absolutely nothing.