Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  I just want to clarify. If I have given the impression that I am advocating for military action as soon as possible, then I have definitely not been clear, so let me apologize for that. I don't want to see military action. My goal is very much to avoid that at all costs. For fear of speaking out of turn, I would say the same thing applies to my colleague, Dr.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  The risk of a military strike, for sure, is alienating the Iranian people and sort of uniting them against the west. That is a risk. But if you focus your strikes specifically on where the nuclear weapons or capabilities are being developed—

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  You mean containment as opposed to preventing them from acquiring any sort of nuclear weapons capability in the first place?

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Oh. Actually, in that case, I don't think I do understand your question. My discussion of containment has to do with the distinction between how far to allow Iran to go in terms of its nuclear weapons capability—whether we're going to allow them to get there and then contain them to ensure that they do not use those weapons—and not in the context of human rights violations.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Yes, I'm certainly in favour of focusing on the regime's human rights violations as additional grounds for diplomatic isolation, for sanctions. As I said, one of my concerns with regard to the current SEMA sanctions that Canada has imposed is that they're solely focused on Iran's nuclear activity.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  It's not according to my opinion, it's according to the research I've done. My research is secondary, but their research might be primary, interviewing Iranians directly or being in Iran. But I take your point. I would love to go to Iran if it weren't so dangerous for Canadians to be there now.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, I think that's a very fair point. I think that point would be legitimate even if people were forced into the IRGC, which, again, it is my understanding that they are not. Your point is very well taken.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  On the first question, with regard to the Iranian footprint in Syria, yes, there has been concrete evidence, including evidence of IRGC leaders flying to Syria and being present to organize government forces there. I would be happy to provide the committee with some written documentation afterward.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, I do understand your concern, and I think it's a good one. Again, based on my own research of what conscription means here, there are conscripts who are serving in the IRGC, but they are choosing to serve in the IRGC. So yes, they will get better pay, and they will probably get better perks as a result of serving in the IRGC, but ultimately there is no gun to their head.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  No, because there are other ways of performing military service.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  First of all, I trust Dr. Ottolenghi to have fairly good intelligence on this. I believe he said that they do have some access to media, but not everyone necessarily gets plugged in. Certainly in terms of the country's own media, it's very, very heavily censored. What is interesting to me is that when Iranians have been interviewed, they are not blaming the west in general for their hardship.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  Correct. Although in this case, the numbers are in Iran's favour. In any event, what I'd like to focus on is that ultimately, even if Iran does not become nuclear-armed but is simply nuclear-capable, I still believe that this is an extremely dangerous situation. The Iranian regime aspires to alter the regional and even global order of power to its advantage.

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  In terms of threats, with regard to Israel...?

Subcommittee on International Human Rights committee  There's no doubt that part of this just does have to do with internal politics. However, I think, from lessons looking at what has often befallen the Jewish people, that when somebody does threaten to kill you, you do have to take that seriously. That's not to say that you immediately pre-empt this with severe military strikes, but it does mean that you have to spend a little bit of time investigating whether there is some truth.