Public Safety committee  I think the answer to that, Mr. Harris, is yes. The Ontario legislation is moving now towards an advisory committee for the OPP overall, as well as detachment boards and first nations boards. I think that would fit in even more naturally with the RCMP, which does a lot of national policing.

Public Safety committee  I think here of a drop-dead date that would allow the commission to release these reports, but the whole idea is that the commissioner should absorb and learn the lessons from the report. The commission has done some very good work on systemic.... Maybe one way to go is to leave it as a systemic body, but allow the provinces, when necessary, to have their own complaints bodies deal with the individual complaints against RCMP officers.

Public Safety committee  I hope so.

Public Safety committee  As you noted, I do think we need a more flexible model. I was part of an expert panel commissioned by the Canadian council of academies on the future of policing. We heard evidence from around the world that policing needs to become much more specialized so that what works for cybercrime does not necessarily work for 24-7.

Public Safety committee  A globe? No. I have a phone, a plus and a minus, and I have a microphone cut. I don't have a globe.

Public Safety committee  I'm afraid not, sorry.

Public Safety committee  Just a second. Sorry, I'm still not getting the interpretation.

Public Safety committee  Unfortunately, I wasn't getting the interpretation in my ear, but I think I followed you, although I may embarrass myself, and I beg your pardon if I do. I do think that with a top-down sort of approach, when the Minister of Public Safety came to you very recently on the mandate letter, I'm pretty sure he came with the heads of five or six different organizations.

Public Safety committee  I'm sorry. It just doesn't seem to be present.

Public Safety committee  We obviously need some SIU-type mechanism for those provinces that do not already have one, but my understanding is that in Alberta, say, they have their own SIU and it handles the investigation. The problem in Nunavut, say, is that if the RCMP shoots someone in Nunavut, which has happened so often, it's the Ottawa police that are investigating.

Public Safety committee  Well, I think that would be a huge step. I'm not necessarily opposed to it, but I don't think it's going to happen overnight, and, as you note, Surrey is coming up with its own police. You can look at the Yukon Police Council. That's an example of where, within one territory, they have taken proactive democratic steps.

Public Safety committee  Look, the RCMP has a very difficult job, and hopefully when they eventually release the Boushie report, they will come out with a plan. Every institution has to deal with institutional racism, so I don't think this should be seen as an indictment of the RCMP in particular.

Public Safety committee  Well, I think it's very important to empower racialized people within the RCMP so that there are support groups. I know that's in the Toronto Police Service and the Ottawa Police Service, where groups of racialized police officers not only can mentor but can also respond to problems that they have within the organization.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much, Ms. Stubbs. Defining police independence, I think, is important because, frankly, there's a degree of—how can I put this nicely—reticence for a minister to direct or send directives to the RCMP. Police independence has sometimes been overinflated to incorporate all kinds of operational independence, where I think the minister really should take more responsibility and issue public directives.

Public Safety committee  Thank you very much, Mr. McKay, and thank you for inviting me. I'm going to make seven concrete proposals to address systemic racism in policing. First, collect and publicize race-based data. Although we know that the problem of systemic racism has been with us for a long time, we need statistics to measure whether it is getting better or worse in terms of both those accused of crime and crime victims.