Public Accounts committee  I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at. I'm not trying to be obstructionist, but I don't understand your question and I don't want to give you a wrong answer. I apologize.

Public Accounts committee  I'm sorry; I don't understand your question.

Public Accounts committee  There hasn't been anyone, as of yet, who has refused to cooperate. I am actually looking into the issue of whether I can order someone to cooperate or not under these circumstances. If I can, I certainly will.

Public Accounts committee  My understanding is that at this date the amount still outstanding is around $200,000.

Public Accounts committee  Absolutely.

Public Accounts committee  I, first of all, want to repeat that, to my knowledge, there was no money stuffed in people's pockets, and I think it's important to say that. From what I understand of the truth, there was money used for other purposes and wrongly spent, and golf games taken, and those kinds of things.

Public Accounts committee  I think those kinds of things are in the mind of the perceiver. I've talked to Chief Superintendent Macaulay about it as well, and he becomes very emotional around that issue. I believe he believes it was a punishment. I think at the time it would have been difficult for him to see it any other way.

Public Accounts committee  I understand it exists. I haven't specifically reviewed it in the extreme. My background isn't in commercial crime or any of those areas. It is a matter for further review in our inquiry, and I am specifically asking for those kinds of--

Public Accounts committee  All of these reports are being reviewed for their validity vis-à-vis the context.

Public Accounts committee  Yes, I have. I believe the issue has become an issue of conflict between individuals and about people having been treated badly. In my own opinion, if that's what you're asking, I believe the management of that issue could have been done in a much more robust and facilitative fashion.

Public Accounts committee  No, and I'll volunteer that I don't know Fraser personally, but he had worked in British Columbia before, and when I worked there he was very highly regarded for when he had worked there. It came as a surprise to me as well.

Public Accounts committee  I haven't seen his personnel record.

Public Accounts committee  But if you're asking whether I am aware of any, the answer is no.

Public Accounts committee  I believe the audit report and a number of other inquiries into that found that people who worked with him--Mr. Dominic Crupi, etc.--facilitated that to happen.

Public Accounts committee  That's right.