Natural Resources committee  Yes, but it's a re-reversal.

Natural Resources committee  First of all, the economics have probably changed, certainly within the last decade. But I think it's also important to note the context, that this isn't the first time the economics have changed. That pipeline was originally built in the 1970s for the specific purpose of taking western oil to eastern Canada at the time of the original OPEC oil embargo and disruption in the Middle East.

Natural Resources committee  Number one, you're quite right in observing that, ultimately, energy is all about the provision of a service. Energy is not the end. The end deliverable is the service that people expect. Whether it's mobility for people or goods, or for home heating or electricity, those are services that ultimately Canadians expect and demand and that underpin our economy and our standard of living.

Natural Resources committee  Traditionally in our business, processing has generally been close to market.

Natural Resources committee  I think that's because, number one, it's much easier and more effective and more efficient and less costly to export and import crude than it is to move refined product. The costs of moving refined product are higher than the costs of moving crude because of the quality standards initially that need to be maintained.

Natural Resources committee  The economics of the refining business are very complex. As you will know, it's a very capital-intensive industry. When you're talking about building new refining capacity, for a modest size of refinery that's capable of refining the growing amounts of heavy crude, you're talking about an investment of $8 billion, $10 billion, or $15 billion, and of course the payback period for that kind of investment is 25 to 30 years or more.

Natural Resources committee  Good morning, Mr. Chair, and good morning members of the committee. It's indeed a pleasure to be here once again. I certainly want to extend my sincere thanks for asking the association to appear on your study of the cross-Canada benefits to developing Canada's oil and gas sector.