Public Safety committee  We talked about various chunks of information. We talked about when the victims' names were going to be released, information on the different crime scenes, a chronology, information about the replica police car. We talked about being proactive. Every time we did a media release, our communications folks would do a scan of what was out there, and that would tell us what we should do next.

Public Safety committee  It wasn't really specifically about an OIC. It was about—

Public Safety committee  Yes. Legislation in general was looming. It was talked about every day in the media and in a media event I did with the minister. So obviously it was important. It was coming out. It was more about providing context to people as to how this information possibly would or could be linked into legislation.

Public Safety committee  The line is so obvious. The line is not thin on this; the line is very thick. Asking for information is not providing direction. Requesting information or my providing information about the biggest mass casualty in Canadian history is not interference. It's part of my responsibility, as commissioner, to make sure there's no environment of surprise for either the minister or the Prime Minister.

Public Safety committee  Well, that was part of it. In that particular example, as I explained, I got a request regarding whether the guns were going to be included. I had also asked about the guns in previous conversations with my communications team.

Public Safety committee  Yes.

Public Safety committee  Well, I believe that any time that we can keep Canadians safe in getting guns off the street, whatever weapons those are, that's a positive for Canadians, keeping Canadians safe, especially weapons that are designed to kill.... The legislation that happened on May 5, I didn't even know that it was coming out.

Public Safety committee  First, there's a command triangle. The command triangle would go through any request if you were looking at, as in our case, wanting to be more proactive in getting the information out. If in fact it would compromise the integrity of an investigation, the command triangle would say, we can provide the number of weapons, and we can provide the general type.

Public Safety committee  It definitely wasn't from the minister. It would have been from his office and probably the chief of staff, Zita Astravas. It was just more of a confirmation. After getting the speaking notes, I would imagine they'd already gotten a copy of one of the versions of the speaking notes of Superintendent Darren Campbell, and it was more of a clarifying question if, in fact, the information on the weapons would be included in that media release.

Public Safety committee  No, absolutely not. There was no question about the content or what type of information would be provided. It was simply about if it were going to be provided—and it wasn't just the minister's office requesting; it was the media. There were other government bureaucrats asking and people within our organization who were trying to get the information out in as timely a way as we could.

Public Safety committee  There was no specific conversation with the minister on this. I believe that it was more of a back-and-forth on email and it was basically: When I referred to an apology, you asked if the information was going to be included. I advised you that it was. Sorry, that was not the case, I was misinformed.

Public Safety committee  I would first like to clarify that I was never upset. That's not in my nature. I was frustrated with the flow of communication. The fact that we were getting requests daily from the media asking us when such information would be released, when the information about the weapons was going to be released, when more background on the perpetrator was going to be released, the information about the incident at the fire hall, the replica police car....

Public Safety committee  I appreciate that you say all of this because I was very careful of being calm. I knew they were feeling very traumatized by what was going on. There was a lot of pressure put on them each and every day during this event, with 22 crime scenes and a lot of information. It's never pleasant to have a conversation when somebody is not meeting your expectations.

Public Safety committee  It was a difficult conversation because they didn't have the capacity. There was a lot of negative narrative coming out in the media, so it was very difficult. That was why it was so crucial that I have this conversation so we could be more proactive and more strategic about our communications.

Public Safety committee  These are difficult times for all leaders. I find it difficult, especially when my integrity is being questioned, because as a police officer I pride myself on my integrity—and, having over 37 years of policing, to have my integrity questioned by anybody I find a bit offensive.