Agriculture committee  Yes. There are different levels, of course. If there weren't room for the majors—the Superstores, the Wal-Marts, and the Costcos—they wouldn't be there. There's a group of consumers who are going to buy price all day long. But you bring up an interesting point. I actually do a seminar on this.

Agriculture committee  With regard to Mr. Sands' point on volume, there are two issues with volume. There is volume, and there is quality, and you have to be honest. We'd love to say that the quality in fruits and vegetables produced in Canada is always great, but some of it is not. The farmers have to take some responsibility for that.

Agriculture committee  Nobody knows more than the chair about the cheese company in his own riding that had for years sold cheese. It was not unlike what you're talking about. For years he'd gone store to store and sold cheese. All of a sudden one day, as a result of the last amalgamation, somebody said, “Well, you can't sell cheese any more.

Agriculture committee  The interpretation of the bureau as to how it operates is that it's purely on low price to the consumer. We can give you lots of examples of it. For example, a few years ago there were only two wholesalers left in Ontario that as a grocery store I could buy goods from, and the last small one was being purchased by a major.

Agriculture committee  I'll let Gary handle that one.

Agriculture committee  Sir, I congratulate you. You just described the key issues in this industry extremely well. Everything you said is absolutely right, and that will continue. The only thing I think you missed is how much money they asked prior to the listing of the product, because that continues.

Agriculture committee  Okay, so here's what's happening with Wal-Mart.... I'm sorry, Gary.

Agriculture committee  Wal-Mart is another major player that's come into the market. CIBC World Markets reported on this earlier this year. It isn't necessarily the independent that gets hurt by Wal-Mart coming into the market. Of course, anybody that comes in and sells food.... I mean, we've even been going to Canadian Tire and buying Kraft Dinner every once in a while these days.

Agriculture committee  First, the trend toward ”buy local”, the carbon footprint, is prevalent in Canada. One of the most interesting things is that despite what's come as a result of the recession, the consumer is still looking at local product as a good product. We have very savvy consumers in Canada, and they are looking at health and wellness.

Agriculture committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm John Scott, and I'm president and CEO of the Canadian Federation of Independent Grocers. With me is Gary Sands, who is vice-president of public policy with CFIG. I've been president of CFIG since 1991. I'm an economist and have studied the retail grocery industry in Canada, and I understand it very well.