Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  This was one of the areas that the first nations talked about extensively when we had a proponent meeting with them. What they said was that they didn't want to be restricted by section 89 of the Indian Act. They wanted to be able to be bonded; therefore, the seizure provisions of section 89 would not apply in cases where monetary issues are involved.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I have had the chance to visit your community on several occasions. Ricky Fontaine—I don't know if you know Ricky—was on my tax advisory board for a number of years. As I mentioned earlier, when Sept-Îles first started to move into the holy area of property tax, they couldn't because the Quebec government was occupying the field, and we had to amend the municipal act.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  I would go back to Attawapiskat. In the last year, you had lots of controversy over that particular community, and visits by Charlie Angus—the MP and apparently a Juno-award winner—and the MPP both saying this community should have property rights so that they can have mortgages.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  As you can tell, I'm an optimist—

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  —but also a realist. I've been doing this now for 38 years, as I have said. Legislation usually takes, on average, about seven years from its inception to its passage. I've been involved in several pieces of legislation already. Because of the policy announcement in the budget, I look forward to working with the proponent first nations over the summer, and having legislation ready for introduction into the House hopefully this fall.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  The other piece that is critically important is the parallel process in which we're going to have to engage with the provincial governments. In order to make this happen, we have to have provincial buy-in. A lot of first nations feel—and you heard it over and over again on January 24—that they have the crown in the room, when, in fact, they don't.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  No, it wasn't Sheila. There was Sheila Fraser, but it was the lady from London. She was parliamentary secretary. It was Sue Barnes. Sue was pursuing the matrimonial real property, and I was saying to her, as well as to Bob Nault and Ron Irwin—I was having these kinds of discussions back in those days—that if you build matrimonial real property on the Indian Act, you're building it on sand, because you just aren't going to have the certainty of land tenure if you're going to do it simply on the Indian Act.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  As far as I'm concerned, it would be a game changer. I visit lots of communities in my capacity as commissioner, and most communities I visit have a 10-year waiting list for housing. Most of the communities that have third-party management have it as a direct result of individuals not paying their mortgage on reserve lands, and it's because they end up with no equity at the end of it.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  It would be the proponent first nations and the federal government.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  You have to realize that with the FNLMA, it's still Indian reserve lands. The title to those lands are still vested in Her Majesty, so they don't move us away from the Indian Act. I'm not here to buttress and to continue to hold up the Indian Act. I want to find ways and means to get away from that, so that's one component.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  It's like Canada, or the provinces. Do we say that Ontario is lacy? Do we say that Ottawa, because it has a lot of different tenures, is lacy? I don't think so.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Then they'd have to—like they do right now—buy the interest. I'm not proposing that we move to what happened under the Dawes Act in the United States. I've studied that extensively. The whole notion behind the Dawes Act, after the western expansion by the United States, was to open up lands and take them away from the Indians.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  Yes.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  It's going to be a clear majority.

Indigenous and Northern Affairs committee  In order to get to the stage we're at right now, it's taken a long time. This didn't just happen yesterday or on March 28. What we started to do, first, was to make a decision that this is something that we needed to do. This came about because of the work I've done over the years.