Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Mr. Chair, obviously I'm not prepared to get into an analysis of this. We haven't studied each one of these bills in any great detail, especially the governance one of a few years ago. It might be interesting for the committee to know that quite a few years ago we did a study on accountability of first nations to the federal government.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Thank you, Mr. Chair. It is the case that access to information has negatively impacted upon documentation. We mention it here in this opening statement about internal audit. When we did the review of internal audit in government we were told that access to information was affecting the timing of reports and whether reports were written or not.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  We talk about protecting audit working papers, and not letting them become public for a variety of reasons. One is that in the process of an audit you validate facts, and you could have drafts of reports that are in fact incorrect. Also there is information that is given that is confidential.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  No, actually it was a report that had been produced under a contract that the department couldn't find, and then they found out that there were other ones that were very similar. So it wasn't the internal audit. It's not the fact that working papers in the internal audit become public but more what is actually done with the internal audit report once it's produced that is the issue.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I guess we could easily get into questions of policy here. If it is the policy that first nations should move toward self-government, they should have in place their own institutions that support self-government.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The Assembly of First Nations has indicated that they would like to establish an auditor general for first nations. We are supportive of that.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The function would be a bit like the function of the Auditor General for the government. I guess there would be a question about all the auditing that's currently going on by private sector firms, if that would remain or not, but they could also do broadly scoped audits. They would be in fact reporting to the communities.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Yes.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  The mandate that would be given to me would be only in regard to federal funds that are given to first nations, and the reporting would be to the Parliament of Canada. A first nations auditor general would audit all of the funds, all of the moneys, be it government transfers or own-source revenues, and would report to first nations people, not to the Parliament of Canada.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Perhaps I could just remind the member, Mr. Chair, that these funds are audited. These communities, small communities--the majority of them are under 500 people--produce over 200 reports a year to four departments. When we did that audit, those departments did little, if anything, with those reports.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Absolutely. Our role is to look at those systems and practices in place and to ask if they are adequate or not, if any improvements should be made. I can tell you that we've been doing probably, on average, two audits a year in the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. There are a lot of improvements that we keep noting.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  Our role is to audit to determine whether an adequate system is in place. If no such system exists, we would report on that and we would expect the department to correct the situation. Otherwise, there would be a follow-up to report on the situation. The prime responsibility always lies with the department and with the government.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  That is correct.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  I do not think so. We have recently had discussions with representatives of the Assembly of First Nations and the Grand Chief. They still want a First Nations Auditor General. How will we achieve that, what form will it take and what will the structure be? That has still not been determined.

Bill C-2 (39th Parliament, 1st Session) committee  We are already auditing the department's books. The first nations are already subject to audits by private sector firms. As mentioned previously, if these audits are not done and are not forwarded to the department, its funding is interrupted. A financial audit is already done of all first nations, or almost all of them.