Justice committee  I can just provide a few comments, noting that there is a jurisdictional issue: we're at arm's length from courts. We do, however, monitor what they're doing and are aware that there have been impacts from COVID. In fact, that information, I understand, is publicly available on the court websites and can be found there, if that's helpful to the committee.

Justice committee  I can hear you perfectly.

Justice committee  Mr. Fortin, if you don't mind, I would like to answer in English.

Justice committee  That would be easier for me. Thank you for your question. If I'm understanding correctly, you want to know the difference between incident-based offences like assault or other offences that involve violence, criminal harassment and then this new proposed offence of coercive control that is aimed at capturing a pattern of behaviour.

Justice committee  My colleague, Stéphanie Bouchard, already gave our comments and tried to make some of those distinctions. You know, of course, that traditional criminal law focuses in on incidents, so it's an incident-based approach. That said, there have been some exceptions to that rule in terms of more modern offences.

Justice committee  Thank you. No, we don't tend to update charter statements. My understanding is that it still applies to what you're looking at today. All of the charter considerations are outlined there; they all remain the same considerations. Thank you.

Justice committee  I'm sorry. I'm not sure about the reference to “ordinary use”. I think that I have, though, acknowledged that gender expression is a broad term. It does have meaning in law. I believe I said that. It's used in other areas of law. I also referenced established rules of statutory interpretation—not just for “gender expression” but for terms like “practice” and other terms in the definition of conversion therapy in the bill—in terms of how courts will apply those principles to these terms, or that they will.

Justice committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. You referenced my stressing the statutory interpretation principle of narrow construction of criminal legislation, but it goes beyond that. It also has to be a purposive and contextual interpretation, and that means that courts will have to look at the overall objective of the legislation, and that is to stop practices that are designed to change identity to conform with societal norms.

Justice committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. Neither term is defined, but, as I've stated before, they are used in other contexts. In fact, Mr. Fortin has given quite an excellent definition of gender expression today. The terms are used in many different contexts. We understand what they mean based on the contextual or purposive interpretation where they appear.

Justice committee  Madam Chair, I assume that's over to me.

Justice committee  Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just note that the charter issues or considerations that are raised by the bill are outlined in the charter statement that is available on the department's website. We do know, based on what the minister has said and even on what some witnesses have said before your committee, that the bill does attempt to strike a balance between the equality and dignity of LGBTQ people on the one hand, and the rights and freedoms of individuals who may choose to receive or provide conversion therapy on the other.

Justice committee  Madam Chair, may I reply?

Justice committee  Thank you. I would like to say at the outset that Monsieur Fortin and I are in agreement on the expansiveness of the term “gender expression”. I don't disagree with anything he said about its meaning. In terms of the term “practice”, I do acknowledge that it's broader than the other terms of “treatment” or “service”.

Justice committee  Thank you for the question. You'll know that the terms are not defined in the Criminal Code. They are defined in various places for different purposes and their meaning is understood. Admittedly, “gender expression” is a very broad term. It's about how one expresses one's own gender to the world.

Justice committee  I'm going to answer in English, if it's okay with you. I apologize, but it will be easier for me. It's an excellent question. I think, though, we'll have to remember that there are two parts to the definition, and that the intervention really has to amount to “a practice, treatment or service”.