Transport committee  Our original timeline was 2015. This is still the advertised date, but we want to iron out all the difficulties before we progress. For instance, we have now delayed implementing SMS for at least a year in certain areas, such as the smaller carriers. For now, SMS is a regulation for large carriers--that is, those using aircraft carrying more than 20 passengers--airports, and the air navigation system.

Transport committee  With the small carriers, first of all, it's the number. While we have a limited number of large air carriers, we have a very large number of smaller carriers. For smaller carriers we have to clarify, as your colleague mentioned before, and we have to tailor the SMS regulation to the size of the carrier.

Transport committee  We can suspend their certificate, for one thing. If a company does not comply with SMS, we have a number of enforcement tools. The harsher one is to suspend their certificate.

Transport committee  I'll just add a few points. I was thinking of hiring you when I heard your question. First of all, on technology, there are two points. We have depended largely, over the last 50 years, on technological improvements in aviation to improve our safety record. For instance, when the jet engine was brought in to replace the old propeller large aircraft, the accident rate was reduced significantly.

Transport committee  No, you can ask questions, Mr. Laframboise, but I can't give you any better answers.

Transport committee  Yes, it is.

Transport committee  No one has ever brought any problems with pilot logbooks to my attention.

Transport committee  I agree with you completely. I don't think it is necessary to keep on eternally wondering what happened in 2001. As you said, the department believed it wasn't a priority. In spite of everything, the department did the work and the research and recommended that the industry use the tools it has made available on its Internet site.

Transport committee  If you do so, you're supposed to report to both companies the number of hours you have flown, so that both will make sure you don't exceed the maximum allowable hours you can fly on a daily, monthly, 90-day, and yearly basis, as per the regulations.

Transport committee  The company must meet all Canadian standards, and if they outsource, they must still meet all TC safety standards. So for us, there is no difference, as long as the service provider meets the standards. This is why it's also so important to work within the framework of ICAO and to push for better standards throughout the world.

Transport committee  Yes, of course it is happening, but it should not happen. And I think I testified here a few years ago on that situation, more specifically with rail companies, where we had done an SMS assessment and found out that what we're supposed to have in a company, which is a non-punitive reporting system, a system in place for all employees to report issues and problems as they find them, a system that says that the company must deal with every one of those issues, was not in place.

Transport committee  I am not prepared to say that it never happens, but obviously, when such cases are discovered during logbook inspections, we take the appropriate steps to apply the law. As for knowing whether the problem has been the same in recent years as it was during the previous 20 or 30 years, I can tell you that it was not the case at all.

Transport committee  Thank you, Yaprak. First of all, if I go back to both of your questions, we have communicated extensively over the last ten years both with industry and our inspectors. But what we haven't done enough is perhaps distinguish the role of the inspector, or the oversight role, versus the SMS philosophy.

Transport committee  The bottom line is yes. However, we're not necessarily using the same vocabulary that you just mentioned. But we will do all of those activities, and that's what I tried to explain in the introduction, that certainly some of you and some of our inspectors thought that we were out of that business, and that's because we were in the implementation phase.

Transport committee  That's certainly the message we passed to all industry members we met. But certainly this misconception was not only among our inspectors but also among some portion of the industry. It is clear that they will see us, but again on a risk basis. A company that is operating very safely, while we will oversee and do some monitoring of their operation, will not see us too often.