Justice committee  Okay. That will be a challenge. You're comparing apples to oranges in this scenario. They're very, very different situations. You're also asking me to comment on a very specific example when in fact that police officer would have reasonable and probable grounds to go to a judge or a justice of the peace and get a production order that would make that whole question about immunity moot.

Justice committee  There are judges available by telephone 24/7 in this country. If you believe...unless it's an emergency. Every telecommunications providers will give information when it's clearly identified to be an emergency exigent circumstance—kidnapping, all the imminent threats to life—so if you can convince them of that, that's fine.

Justice committee  I think it's probably dangerous to ask me to summarize Bill C-13 or my concerns.

Justice committee  Thank you very much. This is a complicated issue that we're looking at. The cyberbullying part is a complicated phenomenon with a lot of moving parts. We've heard a whole lot of nuances. Police investigative powers is a complicated question because we need to make sure that the balance is struck right.

Justice committee  Yes. If we can take the definition of transmission data and modify it such that it's at the same level of intrusiveness as those examples you just gave, then I would be satisfied with that.

Justice committee  I don't have my copy of the Criminal Code, so I'll assume what you said is correct. My concern comes from this: that we are taking reasonable grounds to suspect, which is likely a fine threshold when you're dealing with routing information, basic bank account information, and we're now applying it to what's called transmission data, which goes beyond usual telephone systems and routing systems and things like that.

Justice committee  Correct. Absolutely.

Justice committee  I would echo those sentiments, and would only add that when it comes to somebody who is under the age of 18, those images would be child pornography images as well, which brings into play other legal tools for dealing with not just non-consensual but otherwise dissemination of those images.

Justice committee  It goes in a continuum and it's very circumstance-specific, but that continuum would relate, in my mind, not just to the progression of the investigation but to the intrusiveness of the measures.

Justice committee  Absolutely.

Justice committee  I would expect that as a law enforcement officer you do not want to jeopardize your investigation.

Justice committee  No.

Justice committee  Absolutely; I agree. There is no authority to compel somebody to preserve that information.

Justice committee  That's my understanding.

Justice committee  I'm not saying I'm concerned about the preservation powers.