Industry committee  You have to remember that the debit market is changing. Visa and MasterCard are here, and that market is going to change whether or not Interac changes. So if Interac is not able to restructure, this market is going to be left with a duopoly of those two competitors. So I believe we have to change for the merchants—and I believe that passionately.

Industry committee  I think that has a lot of merit. Ad valorem, or percentage of value, emanated from the credit business, where there is risk inherent in the transaction. That's not a good funds model transaction. Interac has a flat switch fee, because there is much less risk in that transaction as far as an unsecured loan is concerned.

Industry committee  Could you ask that in a different way?

Industry committee  Well, we're going to be clear and transparent with all of our fees. As I've said, we're going to open up our books to the federal government on an annual basis. As I've said, we are respecting the flat fee history of Interac in our pricing in order to preserve our relationship, which is so important in our strategy, with the merchant community.

Finance committee  I can't divulge our strategies fully, but I would say that if we are able to restructure and this level playing field is instituted, that is a product we would strongly have to consider.

Finance committee  Yes, in a word, we would still be considering restructuring. The fact of the matter is the governance is challenged in reacting to the market and to product innovations, infrastructure, and so forth. I think Interac needs to evolve, because we're also competing on a world stage.

Finance committee  You have to remember that the debit market is changing. Visa and MasterCard are here, and that market is going to change whether or not Interac changes. So if Interac is not able to restructure, this market is going to be left with a duopoly of those two competitors. So I believe we have to change for the merchants—and I believe that passionately.

Finance committee  I think that has a lot of merit. Ad valorem, or percentage of value, emanated from the credit business, where there is risk inherent in the transaction. That's not a good funds model transaction. Interac has a flat switch fee, because there is much less risk in that transaction as far as an unsecured loan is concerned.

Finance committee  Could you ask that in a different way?

Finance committee  Well, we're going to be clear and transparent with all of our fees. As I've said, we're going to open up our books to the federal government on an annual basis. As I've said, we are respecting the flat fee history of Interac in our pricing in order to preserve our relationship, which is so important in our strategy, with the merchant community.

Industry committee  To your first question, you're right, we're like a wholesaler, so we provide a fee to the acquirer, who then adds other services. We're an operating cost to them--and you're right, it does reach the merchants. I am not here to prescribe legislative remedies or any prescriptive remedy; I am here to indicate that we do not have a level playing field and to indicate that Interac cannot survive if there isn't a level playing field.

Industry committee  We are, as you know, in discussions with the bureau on restructuring ourselves internally so that we have the same capabilities as our competitors. But the second is that we need to ensure that consumers and merchants are making overt and open, informed choices in the marketplace, and this is what I think Mr.

Industry committee  Yesterday.

Industry committee  We are. They take their statutory duty to protect the interests, but--

Industry committee  I've been very open as to our governance challenges and the challenges of any association model where an organization is governed by its very users. It's tremendously difficult to gain consensus, and it moves at the pace of the slowest. I think it's important to note that the board itself has acknowledged this in their recommendation and support of the proposal to restructure the organization, which could be managed by an independent board.