Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you, Professor Gélinas. My view is not very different from that of Professor Gélinas, and I will attempt to speak to the particular point that he made before I finish, but let me set out my argument, which is pretty straightforward. I

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Mr. Murphy, I think it would be highly desirable, if the Senate is going to become in effect an elected body, to have provisions to change the representation of provinces into some form of equal representation, as was proposed in Charlottetown, and also to have a provision for de

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  New Zealand is a small country. It's not a federal country. It had an upper house and it abolished it. Australia is geographically a much larger and more diverse country, and of course it has an upper house, but it has mechanisms for dealing with conflict. It's a triple-E Senate

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Monsieur Paquette, it does skate very close to that doctrine. There are two things I think one can say to help allay that concern. To pick up on Mr. Murphy's point, this bill is to the disadvantage of the Prime Minister. It is to the disadvantage of the Prime Minister because i

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Like my colleague, I find that a difficult question. But I think if the Prime Minister were required by statute to invoke the process and were then required to respect the outcome of the process--that's your question really--then it's true that section 24 is still not literally a

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  I think what the government is trying to do in the bill, Mr. Angus, is give the expectation that we will move toward an elected Senate, but leave the obligation for that step as a purely political one, and in that way avoid the danger of a finding of constitutionality.

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  I can't think of any examples of that. Our Senate is a bit unusual in that it's a relic of a time when democratic values weren't as strongly held as they are now. And of course the House of Lords is still an appointed body.

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  I suppose we might already be in deep trouble, since the Senate has at least one person who was appointed as the result of an election. If it is unconstitutional to take account of an election, we're probably already in trouble. With respect to the question, this committee is go

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  What's your view on that, Fabien?

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  I suppose that some alternative to Bill C-20, supposing there's a vacancy in Alberta, could give the Prime Minister the power to consult the Legislative Assembly of Alberta. I don't think that would be very different from what is now being proposed in Bill C-20, so I think it wou

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  It certainly is explicitly only advisory, because the bill ends with the Chief Electoral Officer reporting the results to the Prime Minister, and that leaves it up to the Prime Minister. I could imagine a situation, Mr. Reid, where perhaps the election had been contaminated in s

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Let me say that I agree with everything my colleague has said. Let me just add something on the question of whether this should be referred to the Supreme Court. That, of course, is not a democratic measure, but it gets an authoritative ruling on the constitutional law. My view

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  To start, it would be an improvement to Bill C-20 if the consultation were with members of the legislative assembly of the particular province. I suppose that could have been an alternative mechanism. But surely if that person believes that Senate appointments should be made in c

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Yes, Mr. Paquette, it does constitute an amendment to the Constitution, but it is an amendment that is authorized under section 44, because that section allows Parliament to make laws amending the Constitution of Canada in relation to the Senate. And it only exempts from that pow

Bill C-20 (39th Parliament, 2nd Session) committee  Well, I think it's important, Mr. Moore, because if the Prime Minister were required to use the consultation process and were then required by statute to give effect to the outcome, I think we would have a very strong argument--along the lines of Mr. Paquette's point--that Parlia