International Trade committee  I can hear you very well, Mr. Chairman.

International Trade committee  Can you hear me all right?

International Trade committee  Great. Thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. It's a great honour to be able to present to your committee today. I'm here representing Petrobank Energy and Resources Ltd., but I'm also representing a subsidiary of ours, Petrominerales Ltd., which is a Bogota-based oil and gas exploration company.

International Trade committee  Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Bains. I'd be happy to comment on our programs down there. We take a three-pronged approach to our community relations involvement. I echo your comments about the stark disparity between what's happening in the economy and what's happening with high levels of poverty and some of the social issues that are going on in Colombia.

International Trade committee  I apologize, it's not a number I have at my beck and call, so I'll try to do my best to guess. I would suggest that our corporate social responsibility initiatives, including investments in the local economy, would be in the $2 million to $3 million range. That's about 10% of our profits.

International Trade committee  Yes.

International Trade committee  Okay. I think I've remembered the questions. First of all, with respect to the number of people we've hired, we directly employ about 100 people in Colombia—96% of them are Colombians, the other 4% are ex-pats. As far as the number of people we employ in our operations in the field, a huge majority of our operations are conducted through third-party contractors.

International Trade committee  I'm happy to jump in. I hope, by the way, the answer was unequivocally yes. To be clear, in the time I started going to Colombia in 1992, in the time of Pablo Escobar and the Cali cartel and all that, the absolutely palatable difference in the atmosphere and in the vibrancy of the people is potently clear to anyone who has lived in the country or spent any time in the country.

International Trade committee  I don't think I'm the right person to provide a lot of insight into the union business in Colombia. I will say this. We jointly operate a field with the state oil company, Ecopetrol. Ecopetrol's field operators are unionized under something called USO. We have great relationships with them.

International Trade committee  No. We've never ever had to deal with the paramilitary.

International Trade committee  Just to be clear, I think every society has a wealthy sector. That isn't the sector of society we do business with. We're hiring technicians, engineers, clerks, geologists, field workers, cooks, and truck drivers. We hire across the whole economic spectrum. If we're providing employment, investment, and growth, then I have to believe that we're increasing the worth of the economy from the top to the bottom and that it pulls everyone along.

International Trade committee  Unfortunately, I did pull the 10% number out of the air. I'm confident it's correct today, but it will change over time as our investment portfolio changes. I just want to be clear about that. It's always a big issue, and whether we're investing in northern Alberta or in the southern part of the Llanos Basin in Colombia, it's the same issue.

International Trade committee  I would suggest that Colombia has a more rigorous labour law in place. Because it's under the civil code, a lot more specifics are spelled out. There are a lot more institutionalized social programs, particularly for people who receive income at the lowest level of the pay scale.

International Trade committee  I can tell you first-hand that I'm not aware of a single Colombian who has been affected by any of our operations and is now considered to be a displaced person. In fact, our investments have had the opposite effect. We've attracted people to areas where we're working. We've created all the trickle-down industries in regions and built up local economies to the point where we've seen a net influx of people into areas where we're operating.

International Trade committee  Certainly my four-month-old daughter is welcome in Bogota any time she wants to go, but my wife insists on travelling with me every time I go down there, because she loves it. The city has changed. It wasn't always like this. I think you have to be very clear that there has been a very distinct transition.