Government Operations committee  Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here with you today. As you know, my name is John Gamble. As president of the Consulting Engineers of Ontario, I represent the largest of 12 provincial and territorial associations that collectively make up the Association of Canadian Engineering Companies.

Government Operations committee  Thank you, Andrew. What we're advocating here today is a procurement method that ensures your ability to get the right project and the right team for the project at the time so you can have the best possible outcome. And the fees should represent the level of effort and service.

Government Operations committee  I think when we deal at a staff level at Public Works or at Defence Construction Canada, where they have the specific expertise, I think they are quite empathetic. Her name escapes me, but there is an employee at Defence Construction Canada who, as part of her Ph.D. thesis, actually made a direct correlation that the higher the engineering quality the lower the operating and maintenance over the next 20 years.

Government Operations committee  If I may...?

Government Operations committee  Expertise is not the domain solely of large firms. On the contrary, the key is getting the right project team for that particular project that's available at that particular time to serve your interests. The empirical processes we see in typical procurement are actually more effectively the barrier to small firms.

Government Operations committee  If I can just clarify a couple of points, one is we did not write InfraGuide. The FCM and the National Research Council wrote InfraGuide, just to be clear on that point. We are not contractors. We are professional service providers. We are licensed under provincial statutes, like doctors and lawyers and others, and we have an obligation.