Natural Resources committee  We heard the same from Robert Transport.

Natural Resources committee  Sure I can. Performance is up against current-generation diesel. Diesel without all those encumbrances is not an option anymore. That's a non-compliant vehicle. With the new heavy-duty vehicle regulations in Canada and the U.S., the first section is the next four years, and we know that off-the-shelf technologies will do it, in terms of compliance.

Natural Resources committee  I can only speak to the transportation space, obviously, but there, a price on carbon—I would say no. It's marginal in the whole scheme of it, to be honest. You look at a project like Robert with their LNG highway tractors. They get a 70-tonne reduction per tractor, per year. Even with the price on carbon, for that fleet to adopt and pick that lower carbon option, that's a really small factor, really small driver for them.

Natural Resources committee  It's actually locking down an existing benefit for a clear timeframe. Right now, there's no federal excise tax on natural gas as a transportation fuel. Coincidentally, there's no motor or road fuel tax on natural gas in most provinces. This is sort of a silent benefit, so that right now, when we're at maybe 1% of energy use in transportation, who cares?

Natural Resources committee  It's 2020.

Natural Resources committee  In terms of technology advances what we're seeing is that we had the basic curve that started back in the 1980s, and that was the first dedicated natural gas engine. We're now on the fourth generation. That took 25-plus years. That fourth-generation engine matches the power, torque, and performance of a diesel engine.

Natural Resources committee  Okay. Just to clarify, that $3-million program is $3 million federal matched by $3 million industry in funds. So it is 50-50 to look at these barriers. Yes, I would say we have seen leadership on this file, but we think there is so much more potential, and we think increasingly the focus is now about risk and competitiveness in a North American economy.

Natural Resources committee  Yes, I guess from the natural gas for transportation perspective, what this was really all about was we got a lot of bumps and bruises the first time we tried natural gas because we tried to do it across the spectrum. So let's be smart about it as government and industry and figure out what the right niche is.

Natural Resources committee  Thank you, Mr. Benoit, and thank you to all the committee members. It's a privilege to appear before you today to discuss the innovation within the natural gas vehicle sector and how there is a broader spectrum of opportunities opening up, both on-road and off-road, for natural gas in North America.

Finance committee  That's a very difficult question. We've certainly taken the approach to look at return, and return to Canada in a much broader context, which is competitiveness. The threat of having a truck with a much lower operating cost is very real, particularly with the shared border, where most of our population is.

Finance committee  —because otherwise we're going to lose some major investments in Canada.

Finance committee  Absolutely, and I think what we're proposing is very much in the vein of Canada's economic action plan. This is very focused on a sector that tends not to get much attention, and where you see that the reinforcement is actually on cost-of-goods delivery. I don't have my colleagues with Canadian Trucking Alliance here today, but they would be the first to tell you that not only is fuel their number one cost, but it has escalated tremendously.

Finance committee  To date, this is one of the challenges we see for alternative fuels. If you look back at 20 years of government spending, for energy use and transportation it's more than 95% crude oil. We may read a lot about electric vehicles, fuel cells, and other options, but at the end of the day, it's tremendously tough to get these things into the market.

Finance committee  In Europe, yes, and in Canada, not yet, but we have the first coach-bus manufacturer, MCI, in Winnipeg now offering it. It's probably a matter of time, particularly with the U.S. market growth.

Finance committee  Yes, that's probably Prévost, which I think is a division of Daimler.