Finance committee  Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of Economical Insurance, I welcome the opportunity to speak with you today about demutualization of property and casualty insurance companies. We've provided the committee with a submission that we hope provides some useful background, so I'm n

Finance committee  Brokers were allowed to do applications if the applicant met the criteria. However, brokers felt that the mutual policies were very hard to sell for a number of reasons, primarily that mutual policyholders had to sign a legal promissory note called a “premium note.” That was a va

Finance committee  Yes, it has.

Finance committee  In the 1930s.

Finance committee  That's correct.

Finance committee  We believe in a number of things. We believe that the mutual policyholders have sole ownership rights to the distribution of demutualization benefits.

Finance committee  Yes, we have given assurance to our independent broker partners who were concerned that cash policyholders might claim, why didn't you suggest I apply for one of these policies? Our legal advice has been that they do not have a valid claim. We have given our brokers the assurance

Finance committee  No. The actual figures are smaller than that. Brokers represent about 3%.

Finance committee  Approximately 3% of our 2,500 employees have mutual policies.

Finance committee  If you refer back to my submission, we did list out the size and scope of the 10 federally regulated mutual insurance companies. You will note that other than ourselves and one other company, the rest are very small. In reality, to seek to do a sponsored demutualization of a sm

Finance committee  That's correct. They will benefit where the owners sell their ownership interest to outside investors, and outside investors will pay them for that ownership interest. The $1.3 billion surplus in our company remains in our company; it just has different owners.

Finance committee  I only know that our total company charitable giving is approximately a million dollars, but that is spread out from coast to coast.

Finance committee  I disagree. The mutual policyholders are the true owners of the company, by law, by precedent in the life company demutualizations, and in our own company bylaws. I think any attempt to destroy that ownership or spread it around or take it away will be challenged. That's been our

Finance committee  At this point in time it's too difficult to estimate the total value that outside investors would be prepared to pay for Economical. We have refrained from speculating on that on purpose, because individuals, like the reporter in the National Post, incorrectly make assumptions an

Finance committee  From all of my discussions I have had with brokers who have sold these policies over the years, I don't believe there was ever any anticipation that there might be significant proceeds from demutualization. I don't think that was a factor at all. I believe those who were willing